Pregnancy & Birth Support for Young Parents #033

This week we are thrilled to welcome SeQuoia Kemp of Doula4AQueen on to share about her experiences providing support to younger teen parents.  
SeQuoia shares with us in this episode how her passion for supporting birth started when she herself was a teenager and how those formative experiences & her Black feminist roots impact the doula care she provides now.

~SeQuoia discusses how her public health background helps her to look broadly at all the systemic & structural factors that are impacting the pregnant person and may stop them from flourishing as parents.

~She explains how she is able to help birthing parents & their families address their own internalized bias around younger pregnancies.

~SeQuoia reflects on how teen parents can be encouraged to find joy as they approach parenthood, especially for Black women who often have many social limitations on their joy.

~We discuss educational tools and techniques that can help us to connect with younger clientele in engaging, approachable ways.

~She will also share the top 3 things we can do as birth professionals to relate to and support our younger clients during labor and birth.

Transcript

Maggie, RNC-OB  0:06  
Welcome to Your BIRTH Partners, where our mission is to cultivate inclusive collaborative birthcare communities rooted in autonomy, respect and equity. I'm your host, Maggie Runyon, labor and birth nurse, educator and advocate. And I invite you to join us in conversation as we step out of our silos, break down barriers and hierarchies and step into the future of better birth care.

Welcome back, as we continue our season covering biasies and under explored benefits in perinatal care, we are turning our attention to supporting teen or younger parents as they grow their families. Last week, we discussed pregnancies over the age of 35. And the biases that we hold around that. And so this week, we wanted to juxtapose that with the idea that a lot of us, unfortunately, have been conditioned to just have a lot of unconscious biases and judgments that inform our care around the "right" time to become pregnant. And that is not necessarily our fault alone. But it's something that we need to be accountable for, so that we can change it and provide better support. So as we think about pregnancy on the other side of the age spectrum, we want to examine how are the ways that we can best show up to support teen parents? How can we take away some of the stigma and shame that is often unnecessarily associated with these pregnancies? What are some of the best ways that we can reach this clientele to help engage them and information about pregnancy and birth and aarenthood. And to inform that conversion, I'm really excited to have SeQuoia Kemp as a guest on the show. She'll be sharing more about the work she does as a birth worker, and in particular about the way she has really pursued her passion in supporting teen and young clientele as they prepare for birth and parenting. On to the show!

So well welcome so very much, SeQuoia. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here to share with our audience a little bit more about your work and in particular how you support younger parents through pregnancy and birth and postpartum. So if you want to start by telling us about yourself, how did you get into birth work? What led you here? What are you doing?

SeQuoia, CD  2:06  
So hello, hello, my name is SeQuoia. As you all probably know by now. I am a Black feminist birth worker in Syracuse, New York. And, you know, I saw my first birth and I was 14 years old. And that was all it really took from that moment. I was like, I want to be it I wanted to help deliver babies and, um, and then you know, so like, I've been studying I remember writing papers in middle school about like premature birth & writing poems about how it's not the mom's fault and like, over my mind, just just I've always been very inquisitive person. I was diagnosed with ovarian cysts around the same age so like my introduction to maternal health or gynecology, ob gyn and like, it was very personal because I was being told at 14 that I "Oh, you might lose your ovaries." So all of these questions about like motherhood and just just it made me just trying to understand what was going on with my body as a person who was just just got a period a year before all of these things have just it sparked just this inquisitiveness about birth about the body about mothering. So the first birth I was about 13 or 14 years old, so you know, just doing my own all my projects on you know, birth work, and then transitioning to college. You know, senior year I was like, I want to be an OB, I want to be Doctor Kemp. But you know, I learned about doulas. Oh, backing up so I always attended I was a person like "you having a baby...can I come?" that was my family role prior to becoming a doula and then I learned about doula work doing a research project in school. And I was like, I'm already doing this like I'm already you know, I was learning stuff teaching myself well, how so let me help my cousin breathe. You know, I was already it sounds like I'm already a doula, but I let me figure out what this doula stuff is about. And I got trained in 2013 and certified October '14 and it's been my whole life ever since. I just I love being a doula I aspire to be a midwife one day so I'm grateful for all the moms and cousins who let me you know practice [laughter] and get my foot in the door and you know, and even to this day, like, but the first mom that I, my God sister's mom, who's I recorded her birth. And like, even now she'll just like "I'll never forget you was down at the end of the day recording and look at you now, you've got your own doula business." So it's just so nice to know that like, you know, the people in my life really have inspired me to do this work. So that's really how I got it to like here. And then you know, I'm a nurse just graduated from nursing school in just December.

Maggie, RNC-OB  4:48  
Oh congratulations! 

SeQuoia, CD  4:49  
Thank you. I don't work as a nurse like in the traditional sense, but I'm using my nursing knowledge to really provide some more thorough education in the doula work that I do. So, yes, that is a little bit on I recently co founded a center the Sankofa Reproductive Health and Healing Center with three of my amazing colleagues, friends and sisters, and you know, just trying to, you know, improve access improve, you know, body literacy, reproductive wellness knowledge so that, you know, people can take care of themselves as we are fighting to change or build a new system where everybody has access to good care.

Maggie, RNC-OB  5:31  
Oh, yes, that is that is a dream for me. I love the work you're doing. And I love your, your passion for birth and how you've been able to, like, play such an important role for your loved ones and your community. And it's awesome.

SeQuoia, CD  5:46  
Yeah, it's, it's definitely a good experience. Yeah,

Maggie, RNC-OB  5:49  
so I invited Sequoia on here. And I think we somehow I started following you on Twitter, as one does, and love what you've shared about how you provide birth support. And then a few months ago, I forget the exact tweet, but you were sharing about how you provide support for teen, younger parents. And I just love the way you were framing that experience and how you were just talking about how like you were able to uplift them and how they uplift you as well. And so I wanted to have you on here to discuss that in this whole season, we've been talking about all these biases, then, you know, unconscious to realize we all carry, just because we're, you know, flawed people growing up in a flawed world. And I think there has certainly been like a, you know, societal judgement around the age at which you start having babies. And I think, unfortunately, teen younger parents have suffered a lot because of that. And so I want to just kind of, have you share a little bit about like, what, you know, what kind of led you to currently want to support that clientele and just kind of give us a little bit of your background with working with younger parents.

Unknown Speaker  7:00  
Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is that a lot of my friends would be were becoming mothers, you know, in high school right out of high school, so, or I just remember, I grew up in a very, like Christian background. And so I remember the whole, like, if you know that you find out that someone so got pregnant, and it's like, someone so feels comfortable coming to you. And I'm like, "Okay, well, I don't know what's going on. But like, what can I do?" And so like, so much of my teenage years, was like, "Oh, so like, my friend got pregnant, SeQuoia, you know, like, I don't know what a doula is, but SeQuoia a doula." And so like, you know, I don't know, I'm not a parent, I played a role in many of my friends who were teenagers at the time having kids. And so I think, like being a teenager with him, you know, I was able to understand, like, you know, you got to worry about school, and then you got to worry about, you know, finances and like, are you gonna get kicked out? Or do your parents gonna lie to, you know, stay at home? Or, you know, just all of these questions like, I would ask myself, like, "what would I do if I was 16? And pregnant? Right? Like, what would I need? And what would I feel like I would want?" and then trying to be that for, you know, teen parents. I think that, like, you know, just, and I think that also, I just reflect on like, just family, like, just watching how family, I'm just listening to stories about my cousin who got pregnant at 16. And like, she wanted to finish school, but couldn't figure like, you know, my background is in public health, I forgot to say that I got a public health degree. So I'm always thinking about what, what is what you know, are the social determinants of health, like what around them is leading to like a lack or what can lead into like success and like prosperity and flourishing as young parents? So I think that just again, by nature of just always try I'm very solution based oriented thinker. So like, if I see a problem, I was always just like, well, how can I help? So I think, you know, becoming a doula, you know, at a time where I was like, I was getting I was, you know, getting in college. And not only like, now I recognize the issues, but now at this public health degree is helping me to develop solutions. And, you know, coming in bringing that to the work that I do, and so, you know, for many people, a doula is just like really like birth support, right? Like we think about like birth support, make it think about doula care and very rigid ways. And as a doula who had a public health background, I kind of accepted that my doula care is going to include like connecting them to resources, like if my client, you know, is like wondering whether or not they might like how are they going to do this? Like they want to keep their baby but how are they going to do it? You know, like connecting them to somebody who can help them plan like okay, this is how you do like a little budget. This is how you know, we Have calls, we had donations like really just trying to meet the needs to alleviate that stress. Like, that's really my central point like listening, reflecting and saying, "Okay, I have an idea about that." And so letting them know that like this is this is a space where you can vent, but we're going to come up with a solution after so that they can feel like, there's hope and that. I think about, a good portion of my clients were within like 18-19 years old. And I, you know, also I think, like, maybe still being young, that helps, like I said that that common age great range. And that gets to a point where I'm like, I still feel like I'm at some times, like, in conversation with them. I'm like, Oh, I want to talk, like, you know, it's so being able to just have these moments where it's like, what's going on? And like, sometimes I start my sessions off with, like, "what's going on?" You know, we're talking about, like, what does it mean, to start a family, and like, um, you know, Black feminism is a very central part of my work. So it's like, maybe, you know, I have a young dad who thinks that like, has a set idea about what manhood looks like, and be able to, like, help him unpack that. And like, maybe if he if he's exhibiting toxic masculinity, talking about, like, ways that it's okay to express your feelings, it's okay to communicate, because communication is going to be very part, very important part of parenting. And so it's, it's about, like, preparing them for the actual act of the birth, but kind of helping them unpack, you know, mindsets that they may have developed, that in the long run are going to be a little bit more harmful than, you know, than just being Oh, being okay, with being emotional, be okay with being a nurturer. And so, I feel like a lot of my time time with them, is really just kind of unpacking and giving them that space, to question and wonder. And, and because, you know, you know, a lot of times parents like what you did, like, you know, today, like, it's time to figure it out. But if they could come here and say, you know, what's that, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like, "Alright." Or "my parents say that I can live here, but I gotta have plans. "So let's make a plan." Because we because housing is an important need. So, you know, a lot of it is like coaching, you know, supporting cheerleading, and like literally, co creating, like these plans so that they can have like housing, you know, food and necessities to really have that starting probably be important.

Maggie, RNC-OB  12:25  
Yeah, oh, my gosh, well, that and it's so unfortunate that that is not just like, the baseline for every pregnant person, anywhere like that is what we should be doing, we should be surrounding with that support that goes beyond just, you know, support at the time of birth, which is a very important time, that is a moment in the midst of everything else that they're that they're doing and how they're growing as a person and a family. And I was wondering, could you can you elaborate? You touched on the some of them like working through mindset, working through shifts working with like family dynamics? So I think, we know, certainly sometimes birth workers can hold, you know, biases about taking care of younger clientele. And like you said, just some of the kind of like, shame or stigma that can come with that. But I also think there's something about like, when, when the, how do you help, maybe when the pregnant person is navigating their own feelings, like they feel like they did something wrong, or that their parent is, you know, making them feel like they should be ashamed about what is what's going on? Is there kind of do some tools, you help to work through that with them?

SeQuoia, CD  13:25  
Yeah, I mean, I think I am type of person. And I mean, anybody in my family could tell you that I'm like, I care about which i think but I'm like, "you are about to go into a huge new journey," what you want to you want to ask that you can hear people out, right? So I have one, one, teenager and mind who mom is a teen mom, right? And so for your 16 year old daughter to be pregnant, it's this mentality that like, you did something wrong, or why didn't it? Like why couldn't they come to you or, you know, that this failure as a parent, and I was like, you know, you didn't fail? Right? Like, yes, you had a child at 16. But look at how much you've done. And like, this could be a moment where you can give your daughter the opportunity to say, these are the struggles I went through, this work so that you don't have had those same struggles. Like, like, I so with my clients, I'm like, like so that one client on my mind, where it's just like, your parents are going to always have an idea of who how they want you to raise. But at this point, it's like where do you see your life like I always respond to them. Because we I mean, depending on who you know, that night like negative and positive self talk is very important and like behavior medicine is like really a huge way of understanding the psychology on the understanding the messages. So you know, for me, it's like reminding yourself that you are doing everything you need to do to put yourself in a position to be successful to have a healthy family. You So when we had those moments of doubt, like journaling introduced them to meditation, I connect them with other young moms or moms who may have had babies at a young age who, who are like I've been there with you, what do you need, so like, really, you know, connecting them to other people. And like one thing I learned about in psychology, it's like normalizing situations, like not normalizing it in a way. It's like, Oh, well, your mom data so you can, but like, recognize that what you're feeling is normal with this doubt, this insecurities. These are normal feelings, and it's okay to feel this way. And I'm here to offer that support, and often referring to therapy, because sometimes they, a lot of times, they're navigating, you know, they might be navigating trauma, they might be navigating, like different parenting styles that may have not been supportive, right. And so just really trying to help them understand that. It's not that they failed their parents, or it's not that their parents failed them. But as a community, maybe we can that we could think about all the different things that probably would have avoided the situation. But right now, you've accepted that you're going to have this baby. And so we're going to unpack these things, but I'm going to always push you forward, because you can't wallow in staying that we, how do we get you to a point where you could come to a self acceptance. And so and i also I see how grandparents are angry at birth, but as soon as that baby comes, they are all over the baby and outside, like, I get to tell them nine times out of 10 when this baby comes, your parents are gonna flip the switch. And that's exactly what often what I see is that it does, so I really just like, you know, let's talk about I start my, my sessions off with meditation most of the time, and I'm just giving them you know, opportunities to express themselves, specifically because like you, I mean, one mama, she was just like, she was struggling with the fact that her daughter was happy. And now she gets to feel joy, you know, it's like, do you expect you to do you think she she understands that she disappointed you, that in and of itself is is a burden that you know, to weigh? So it's like, at some point, she gets to experience joy, because at the end of the day, she's bringing new life? So do you want her to be angry and sad and depressed her entire pregnancy? Or do you want her to just be happy and to experience joy? And I think she's she had to step back and say, You're right, you know, so I'm very much a unpack in less than a year out. What what how do we deal with this? Yeah,

Maggie, RNC-OB  17:36  
I think there's so much power. And just, like you said, kind of like naming all of that that's happening that like, right, we're complex people, and you are allowed to have a multitude of feelings about your pregnancy. And I do feel like I think it must be really impactful for like a parent, if you were to hear that, like, you know, as birth workers, when we think of like supporting younger parents, if we think of like, helping them with those dynamics that like, I, I feel like most people, if they were able to have that conversation with their family, with their community at large and say something that effect like, "Hey, I understand this wasn't this wasn't planned, we didn't realize that this was what was gonna happen. But I want to find joy in this process. And I would love for you to find joy with me." That that is that like moment to pause and realize like, Oh, right, like, that's an option. You don't have to just keep wallowing or doing the what if game or you know, any of that stuff like that the that is not productive. At that point of, you know, of the journey. And I, I love that that's something that's been really like, important for you, as you, you know, to help your clients to kind of transition their mindset. And yeah, and think about it.

Unknown Speaker  18:45  
And I mean, my take is like, this is a family affair, right? So it's not saying that that mom who was dealing with those conflicted feelings, like I see this as, like, a amount of for healing, right. So like, maybe mom still, still is probably grappling with their experience that they faced, and they know that it was hard. And so, you know, it's, you know, being able to have let grandma be angry, like you can you can be angry and you can have, it's okay to feel these things. But well, that's not projected onto the pregnant person. Right? Because we're not saying that these concerns, you know, disappointment is not valid, but it's okay. But we got to process it away from the pregnant person, because a pregnant person really should be figuring out how can how are they going to stay healthy? How are they going to navigate this scary system that they you know, how are they going to prepare for this? And then you know, and now they could, they could so it's like, you know, essential part of my work is like being non judgmental, and really like trying to see the best in like a grandparent Who, who, who might be having differences of opinion. It's like how can we all get to a place where we're understanding each other and so that This can be a good environment. And, you know, and I'm happy to say that that young lady, I'm thinking about graduated high school got a job, like, you know, it's something she's like, I don't have anything to prove to anybody else I have to put my daughter, right, like, so. It's like, we need community, we need people, we need support, like, that's what a team person need, they need support. If you feel like you can't do that, at that moment, recognize that, and then, you know, and for a minute, I was kind of being like the liaison. And then once grandma came to a place of acceptance, and allowed their herself to feel excited, then everything just came out together. And so I think about, I think that specifically as Black women, you know, we're expected to just forge through and path through and play, you know, and just like, don't think about failing, just be strong. And in that moment, it's like, it's okay, we got a lot of this, it's a lot of disappointment. We're feeling that's okay. But, you know, Joy is isn't as a centering thing that we don't really get to experience socially, in the way that other people of other races that are, you know, different demographics do. So I'm always like, okay, now what we've done to the joy, right, we talked about it now, what we're going to do to start to join this piece, and it's really, it's really nice to kind of see that transition from, you know, the button has to be like, I love my baby, I love my grandbaby. You know, I didn't think I was gonna become a grandma 47. But it is what it is, you know, being able to see that, that growth and that family bond, because what we do know is that the one of the biggest markers for success as a person is that support network. So it's like helping the family to be a good strong support network. I know that even after I leave, and I'm not the doula anymore, that that we set a foundation for success by building a supportive network around that team, or team period.

Maggie, RNC-OB  21:51  
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. That's beautiful. I mean, that. That is you want to see that for them as they continue on, you know, their journey. And Parenthood is a, it's a long road of navigating and a lot of complex, you know, pieces that that go on. And it is hard. You know, certainly I think having a baby at any age, there's a lot that changes, there's a ton of shifts, and there's a lot to prepare. And it is like you said there, I mean, there are so many different pieces that need to fall into place, especially if you're still thinking about finishing up school, navigating living situations, you know, making more, you know, room for that. And so to have the family be just on board and ready to be really active participants in that like that beautiful. One of the other questions that I have. And I realize I, I have realized in my experiences as a nurse that, like I have probably been under prepared kind of for supporting that dynamic. And I think it's obviously it's a very different relationship when you're, you know, a doula who's been able to kind of establish care from an earlier time and really build that relationship. I don't know if you have any insight because I, I'm thinking back about a couple births that I attended, where there was just, there was a lot of animosity. And I think there's still a lot of negativity around the pregnancy. And one I think of in particular, the grandmother to be, was like, really berating her daughter during labor and like really mad that she wanted to get the epidural because she felt like she needed to just power through this because this is, you know, like, it's kind of like you deserve this because you did this thing. And there was a lot of just really negative energy. And it was many years ago, and I think I was just I was younger and less less aware. But I would love it if you know, if you feel like you can speak to any of that piece of like dissolving some of those kind of interactions, if they're still happening, like as we're going to literally support birth and like the birthing process.

SeQuoia, CD  23:43  
Yeah, I mean, I can definitely see that dynamic. I've witnessed it, you know, I always go back to like the why, right? And it's like, why, like, as a doula, because I've seen it like, right, like the moms like, :you're not gonna get an epidural. We don't get epidurals." And I think it's been one time on Black women specifically, is that when you think about like, our reality is that a lot, a lot of them, not all Black people have traumatic birth incidents, but many of the Black mothers that I deal with, they are coming with their own traumatic birth experiences. And because we probably they have not ever had a space to actually deal with it. Or maybe they didn't even name it or call it trauma. It's like when they see that child going through it, it's like, well, I get asked to have back problems or when I got an epidural, I'm gonna tell my client, my daughter, you don't get no epidural. Right? So it's like trying to understand what is leading this grandparent to be to be making these statements to be understanding, right. And so I mean, I've seen some nurses like if, if the people and the birth team seem to be like taking that autonomy away, because like, that's the essential like, at the end of the day, yes, there there are pros and cons and risks and disadvantage. And advantages, but this is not your birth. So finding ways to say, "okay, you know, I, I think that we want, we all want here, what's best for you the birthing person," so like recentering that, and like sometimes I have to, you know, do that with provider so I feel like are being a little bit pushy and that given my client time to like, really process and sit before they make a decision. And sometimes it's called, you know, we call it it's called reframing. And that's what like I learned in my doula trainings like, if you feel at any moment that the person who is birthing or laboring that their power or autonomy is being stripped away, just like asking them what what do you want, you know, or saying, Well, I think everyone in this room wants you to make a decision, that's going to feel good to you. And so it kind of puts, it kind of puts it on everybody else to be like, if that's not happening, you need to get on board really quickly. But in a way, that's not directly being like, you're being a great bad, horrible grandmother, you need to get out, you know, and so I think, and I think it's different also depends on it, you know, I could do it, because like, if we got a cultural, you know, it's like it gets, it gets missed, and mixie. When there's cultural differences, there's racial differences, because it's a can get real messy. But I think it's simple thing that someone can do is like, Well, what do you want and like, and like, you know, showing that, you know, I care about you, as your nurse, I'm caring about you, I don't want you to be in this, you know, uncomfortable pain, but also using that as moments of education, like, you know, what, if you are fighting the labor, it can stall, things you cannot need, you're gonna need that energy to push. And so like, in a way, you're talking to the client, and you're centering the client, but the people in the room are also hearing that education. And the idea is that they will be like, let me check myself. Because at the end of the day, it is her birth, and sometimes it works. And sometimes we have to keep recentering. But I think that's one thing, a nurse, if I was a nurse, I would try to just like make sure, I'm being very loud and clear. It's like I support you, I support. You knew what you want, or addressing those concerns. But in a way that like, if you can, if you hear passing comments being like, Well, you know, I understand that people do have varying experiences for epidurals. But it is like, if this person is really not tolerating the labor, this can actually change outcomes. And so what we really want is for her, if, you know, I just I that's what I do, like a lot of my clients are like, I don't want epidural. And I'm like, okay, but I still can't teach you about epidural, because you're getting that moment, you could be in labor for 72 hours, you might need it, I literally can't relax you so that your body can, you know, progress. So it's one of those things was like, I think in nursing school, we really talked about the power of education, and, and going in and like asking questions, I think asking questions. So because in those moments, what I see is, as my clients not being heard, like my patients not being heard, and it's like, do I intervene? And I think, I think yes, I think in most cases, just like kind of feeling it out. And finding ways to like, connect with the client. Because what I know is that some people don't like clients, they leave birth and like mine, oh, my mom, like you, I even have clients like apologize to the nurse, like I know, my mom's ex right now. But I know that in my experience that the client really values like make that real personal connection and people make that nurses make during the process.

Maggie, RNC-OB  28:30  
I really like that that framing of it because I do think they're like you said there can be different just cultural, familial relationships and not feeling like you want to interfere with that, while also obviously still wanting to always center or the autonomy and that is not different. If the person is 14,15,16 years old, I think it does get muddy sometimes as you're watching, you know, a grown person they're talking about, and this is their child, but always remembering that like that pregnant person, they are fully autonomous for them and for their babies care and what they want to choose, like they are the parent, they get to make those decisions for, you know, their body and, and their baby. And then if you want to expand a little bit, I know you're just talking about like the education piece, like are there Do you find that there's different educational like tools or techniques or, you know, things that you found, like really helpful with this population? I think sometimes we think about like, obviously, you know, like as, as, as we age, it always feels like you know, the younger generation, like they've got just these different ways of thinking about stuff and technology plays a you know, roll in how we consume information at this point. So if you want to kind of touch on that piece a little bit.

SeQuoia, CD  29:35  
This is my favorite part. Because my client, like I said, like, so I feel it. Well, I just turned 26 last year, and like, leading up to my my birthday, I'm like, it was like, I was going through this transition where I'm like, I'm not a kid anyway, I don't know what it was. I think it was because like I went to, I went to University of Rochester for undergrad and you know, I wasn't I was a kid at that moment. I was just that I was 17, you know, like, yeah, and grew into a womanhood during college. And then to go back to nursing school, I kind of felt like I was 18 again, but the experiences and the way that I was being treated by administrator was like, you're an adult, you're not like, and I'm like, I'm an adult, like, all these messages. It's like, Oh, I gotta, I gotta be an adult, like, I don't know, a light bulb just switched in my head. So I say that to say that when I am something that I had to accept to recognize one of my youngest clients is that, like, I usually email my clients, like a lot of my clients are, you know, they're working there, the professionals, and especially they check the emails regularly. By client, she don't say, an email, you don't say it sound like, I'm like, Why is she not telling you? I'm like, she's 19. She knows, you know, she doesn't have a job that she has to check her email. So it's like, I realized, and I'm like, Oh, so I'm, like, even like, I will text her from my work number. And she wouldn't respond. But if I texted her my personal number, she will respond. So I was like, because she knows me as SeQuoia. The doula piece she like, yeah, you sent me all the business stuff that I need to do, but like he had, like, I was trying to figure out why she was. So I'm like, I gotta text her for my personal phone number. So she knows that she's talking to SeQuoia. And not just as a doula who I have a former relationship with. For her partner. I'm like, I gotta send him graphics to read, right. So like, one like we get most of our appointments have been more of like, family counseling, like style, like, because I'm here, what's going on? Let's strategize. Let's prepare, because I feel like younger parents, you know, especially with the unplanned pregnancy, they have their conversations that they have not Do you want to have baby vaccinated? Are you guys gonna move in together? It's like what is, you know, if you don't stay together romantically? What are you going to do? So, outside of the prenatal appointments, I had to do more of that like intermediate. Here's a graphic about starting a family, like educated birth, I love The Educated Birth, their graphics are just so easy to understand. I use them to teach, you know, because I think that the one they don't really know what they're getting into, right? They just think like, Oh, baby, I'm gonna do my parents did, I'm like, hold up, there's so much more. So I feel so you know, using, like, if I see a video, on Instagram, I'll send it to that client, because I know she's on Instagram. So trying to like meet her, you know, where she's at sending her different videos of what home but she hadn't home birth. So what home birth looks like, it doesn't have to be screaming, it doesn't even know we can play some torque music, we can, you know, do some playing some reggae, like it like just trying to show her different examples of like, what her birth can look like. And then making sure I'm being conscientious of like having videos that includes what the partner can do, because we'll practice in a prenatal session, we do the double hip squeeze and all that. But I think for us, we're like, as I'm still a millennial, so but in that, you know, I'm like, I know they're on TikTok. I know, they're on Instagram, how do I use TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube videos to kind of get the education that I need so that it's within their, like, time span and mentor base? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Maggie, RNC-OB  33:19  
I love it. Yeah, I do think I think there's like, there's value in making like, just making it accessible, it's fun, and it doesn't always have to feel heavy. I'm a huge proponent of childbirth education, I think there is tremendous value in learning, you know, about the birthing process, but I do think sometimes, like coming in for, you know, a couple hours and consuming all that information all at once, like, any age, it just inevitably, a bunch of it's going to just go over your head in one way or the other, because you just can't physically take it all in and like process it. And so I love just being able, you know, that idea of be able to share like, yep, here's a graphic, here's, here's a one minute TikTok video like that. This is gonna, you know, like, it's that is how we're, we're learning and our attention span is changing with technology. So that is how we're like, taking it in. And that in that it helps us get like a snippet. Okay, so think about whatever that that's, that's great. And I, I also feel like when I've thought to about, you know, clients, and especially for younger clients, who maybe just haven't received a lot of information yet about just like how their body works and about like reproductive health care in general, I took care of her again, years ago, helping her postpartum and learning about, you know, education and going forward, and we were discussing birth control. And at that point, it became apparent that she was still not aware of what sexual activity had led to the pregnancy. And I realize like what a shame that she has been through, gone through her whole pregnancy, birth and she's now postpartum and no one has really just like, taken the time to like, make sure she is comfortable with what and she was, you know, very young and just she maybe she hadn't had that information yet in you know, like an education, you know, school setting. Right. And, and I, you know, maybe she didn't feel comfortable discussing it with her family or they always Assume that she obviously knew how this had happened. But so I feel like that piece of just making sure that people have like, I think they're just so many of us adults to who we are not well educated on what our body is doing. And, you know, and we need to know that in a deeper way for our like, our overall well being, you know, way beyond just pregnancy. And so I feel like obviously, like the education piece, you know, especially in the population, I feel like can't be overstated how important it is to make sure people feel comfortable with their body and what's going on, so that then when they're raising their babies, they also have a solid foundation, and that there's no shame in talking about our bodies, and sex and how all of this happens, like reproductive health is a body system, just like all the other systems and we have total brought on this stigma around it that doesn't, it doesn't need to be there.

SeQuoia, CD  35:47  
Yeah. And that's what, like one of my one of my mentor, as they're always saying, like, like, they were like this, we when we say birth, like liberation happens through birth, it's like, with each family that we're connecting with, and was in and with each family, who are we like telling you like, birth justice? It's not like a reproductive justice isn't this abstract thing? Like, this is what it means in your context. And it's like, then you are inspiring people, like we are changing, you know, it's like, I just always think about, like, yes, we the larger thing is that, like, we want to, like lower, you know, lower, you know, lower, all it is statistics, right, all the isms, but then it's like, wait, in the meantime, what are we doing now? And I think that is like, connecting these broader, like frameworks and ideologies, and then like, actually using it as moments to teach the families so that we're actually transitioning from the old ways to more healthier and ways based on like evidence, but also based on the experience as well. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  36:53  
Yeah, absolutely. Well, as we, you know, wrap this up, are there like, you know, what are like the three things that you would say that would relate as birth workers of, you know, all stripes, ways that we can really help to support you know, younger parents as they prepare for their birth?

SeQuoia, CD  37:05  
Yeah, I mean, I think the first part, the first part is just I always ask myself, like, like, like, introspection, self reflection, that is who I am, my mother gave me & my sister journals when we're young. And so I'm always like, you know, reflecting on moral dilemma, right? So I think that it's important for us to be asking to be asking ourselves, what do we need when we were younger? Because like, there's, like, so much of the things that the our young parents need, can be connected, like I if my work can, is connected to this, this passion, it's because of things that I experienced, like nothing, I wasn't at mine, but like, did I need someone to talk to that I need someone who I could like, ask questions, and then not be like, ya know, that, you know, it's like, what do you what do you need? What did you feel you need and like, being careful to like, not only learn this in nursing, like the first part of like, addressing your biases, or like, trying to solve the issue in the nursing is like, so how do you feel about it? Like, what are your personal? So I think like really reflecting on like, what did you mean, what do you feel like, and then the second thing is like, being in the know, so if you kind of get on tiktok, you know, or use these moments, if I go, I instead of like going right into education, what I do is like, tell me what you know about birth, tell me what you know about labor. So that psychological psychology, the psychological pieces, that it kind of helps them affirm that they know something, right. And then you can also reveal they don't, because I think when people can come into him, like, you know what, maybe I do have a foundation, I feel like they're gonna be more excited, they're gonna be more open. And I can just see, like, the different texts that I use, people open up a little bit more. And that's really what you want to me. Because when it comes to that actual learning process, you want that trust to be built. And I think that trust is built through honest reflection of yourself or your ideologies, and then understanding that student or that person, or that young person through what they already know, and building on that. Um, and then I think the other piece is, like, always remembering that their brains are still developing, like, this is something that I have to understand because, um, you know, and then I think that a lot of us like, as adults, we because we just, we figured it out, you just, sometimes you have to remember that this person's brain is still developing these connections, these neurons are still being made. And so what can you do in that process, to make sure you're depositing seeds that's going to grow while their brain is still developing? Right. So and, and, and I think that I had to understanding why I always just be like, why are you Why Why are we making this disconnect? Like why can't they see the abstract and then connect it and it's like, because they bring probably the same theory. Yeah, I think it was a Piaget's theory about the different frameworks that like, where age and then like, what what you're preoccupied with psychologically, I think, like, you know, doing that research is going to be so important. Because now I'm like, I get it, I get Wow, why this person is fixated on being with their partner versus like, being a dad, like, the romance and companionship is important to them. And this baby is like, yeah, it's coming for the baby's not here yet. So in their mind, it's hard for them to switch into daddy mode, because the baby's not here yet. So, you know, trying to like understand how the brain is working at that age, or whatever age group they're in, helps me to be like, let me give a little bit more grace, a little bit more grace, right? Because, you know, it can be frustrating. But it's like, what grace do they need right? Now? What do I need to do as a as a doula, as a birthworker, as a nurse to kind of understand, so that I can always be like, remaining true to my, like, compassionate, and non judgmental framework? So those are like the three things that I really think about, in regards to how we can better support young parents. Yeah. Those are, those are

Maggie, RNC-OB  41:17  
awesome. And, yeah, they like that. Especially that last piece of just remembering like that there are, like, there are just these differences in what we're ready to, you know, do accept and process at that age. And like you said, just having that not jumping to the judgment piece more than frustration, which it which happens, natural emotion that can come up when you're trying to help someone through it. And it seems like it's not, you know, going that way, but just remembering that and then, and honoring, like, the, the fun that comes from it, too, you know, like, I think sometimes, you know, again, we focus on like, the potential, you know, negative or hardship of it, but like, right, like, there's all this fun peace, like all that energy you have as like a young parent, like, you're so close to childhood yourself, like you're like, you know, you can be really engaged in play and these activities and like that connection with your child in a way that you can't necessarily appreciate by the time you're 25, 30, 35, 40, like, it's just going to be a different relationship. And, and finding like the, the fun and exciting pieces of as well.

SeQuoia, CD  42:15  
You just the last thing I'll say is like you just reminded me about like, what am I like, by quiet? The baby showers, right? It's like, there's this thing where like, he's like, "well, I don't want to give a baby shower to my teenage child, because I feel like I'm saying it's okay." It's like, or you're saying that you need as many resources as you possibly can. And this is one way to get those. And so you know, it just like and that's why I said like us maybe a certain dollar but like, I'm gonna do proud childbirth, education, preparation, that's it. But to me, I like you don't you don't have anybody to go and do a baby registry. I'll come pick you up. We'll go to a baby registry. Right? Because it's like, regarding like I said, regardless of what people do, if somebody asked you do you have a link, send that link when when Pampers and those baby clothes and stuff come in? Who could be mad at that, ya know what I'm saying? So that was my first, I never did a registry. So I have found one of my own one of my she was my client, but she was coming through my classes. And I'm like, let's go to a baby registry because you need it. So yeah, keeping it fun. And as like as birthworkers like we we know all the ins and outs about the systems like we, we wrestled with that if I were in this world tries to make it better. And so just like, what, but we can also sometimes get focused on like the road and fight ahead. I think also like, just seeing young parents like get the blossom. It just makes me so excited. I'm just like, This is good stuff. You know, I love it. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  43:46  
I love your passion for this work. And thank you so much for coming out here to share it with us and help us to find it in our own.

SeQuoia, CD  43:53  
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Maggie, RNC-OB  43:57  
Thanks for tuning in. We hope you really enjoyed this conversation with SeQuoia as we explored all the ways that we can do more do better, as we aim to support parents of all ages, and particularly our teen and younger parents as they step into the journey of parenthood. We love to learn and grow alongside with you. So please follow us at Your BIRTH Partners across social media. And in particular, we'd love to invite you to join us on our Facebook group, Your BIRTH Partners Community. And there we have a chance to talk a little bit more about topics for each week's podcast, and kind of dive into some of the nuances of actually putting these into place as we go out and practice in the real world. But we recommend you check out our show notes. We'll be sharing more there about Sequoia and how you can support her work with Doula 4 A Queen and the Sankofa Reproductive Health and Healing Center. We'll also be sharing some more information and educational resources that we think clients of all ages will enjoy might be really helpful as you go out and care for your parents. Till next time