Black Midwifery & Championing Equity #057

This time on the show, we'll be joined in conversation by Meredith Strayhorn of The Walking Stick Midwifery Care.  Meredith been a huge inspiration and source of collaboration and insight in growing Your BIRTH Partners.  As we've discussed over and over the last few years, I've been incredibly inspired by her journey as a birthworker, as she is growing and learning as a doula and now a student midwife.  I'm excited for you to hear her story, understand what motivates her to keep going, how she's faced challenges that come up with us doing this really heart centered work through just unbelievably challenging times over the last few years.   

In this episode we talk a lot about the systemic inequities that we see in our system, particularly the mounting racism-driven disparities and birth care. How do we challenge these as individual birth workers? How do we cope with the trauma that we face as we see poor birth care play out over and over and over? How do we encourage birthing people to find joy in their experience, despite these inequities?

Join us to learn more about:
~Cultural representation & creating health equity for Black birthing people
~Building up your community into a movement
~Black ancestral midwifery, safety, & connection
~Reconsidering how we define "care"
~False dichotomy of homebirth & hospital birth idealogy
~Coping with systemic inequities & racist health outcomes
~Ways to highlight the beauty and joy of Black birth

Learn more about Meredith & connect here!

Transcript

Maggie, RNC-OB  0:03  
Welcome to Your BIRTH Partners, the podcast identifying gaps, acknowledging biases, and co-creating a trauma informed standard of birth care with change agents across the spectrum of birth work. I'm your host, Maggie Runyon. I'm a birth nurse, educator and advocate has been searching since 2010 for the answers to how to provide better care during pregnancy, birth and postpartum. Through my own pregnancies and sporting births in home and hospitals around the country. I've seen firsthand many of the systemic flaws that exist in prenatal care. Through these conversations, I'm thrilled to share with you insights and inspiration as we work collectively to transform birthcare.

This time on the show, we'll be joined in conversation by Meredith Strayhorn, we're going to be exploring so much of how we step into our roles as change agents and birth care, admits so many systemic issues and failures. In full disclosure, Meredith is one of my very favorite people. She's been a huge inspiration and source of collaboration and insight, as we've taken Your BIRTH Partners from a seed of an idea that really was planted when I met Meredith at a conference, to joining YBP as a board member, continuing to be a soundboard as we look to really grow our mission here to create inclusive collaborative birthcare communities rooted in autonomy, respect, and equity. And as we've discussed over and over the last few years, I've been incredibly inspired by her journey as a birthworker, as she is growing and learning as a doula and now a student midwife. I'm excited for you to hear her story, understand what motivates her to keep going, how she's faced challenges that come up with us doing this really heart centered work through just unbelievably challenging times over the last few years. And we'll be talking a lot about the systemic inequities that we see in our system, particularly the mounting racism-driven disparities and birth care. How do we challenge these as individual birth workers? How do we cope with the trauma that we face as we see poor birth care play out over and over and over? How do we encourage birthing people to find joy in their experience, despite these inequities, you will leave this episode with a nod that you can and will make change as an individual within birth work, that community is paramount to that, even when the work feels isolating at times, and that there is so much we can do collectively to create the birth care environment that we want to operate in. On to the show! 

All right. Well, Meredith, I am just so excited to have you back on the podcast to share a little bit more about your story, your journey and kind of where you're going from here as one of my very favorite change agents in the world. So if you want to just tell our audience a little bit about yourself.

Meredith, CPM-student  2:24  
Sure. So my name is Meredith Strayhorn. I'm a former doula and a current midwifery student. I am in my primary phase currently almost finished with my clinical work, and I still have a year of didactic schoolwork left. So I will graduate from Mercy in action next year, May of 2023. And then study and take the NARM and pass it as next year. First try. That's the goal. So I've been in birthworks, since 2017, I am also on the board of Blaq Birth Circle. Yeah, just trying to you know, dip my pinky toe in as many places as I can to see what change I can bring about.

Maggie, RNC-OB  3:08  
Yeah. Do you feel like that, like that designator of being like a change agent? Does that does that resonate with you? Has that always felt like part of your journey? 

Meredith, CPM-student  3:18  
Yes,I actually, I have a friend who gave me a bracelet that says difference maker, that was one of the bracelets that I got, I think last year for Christmas, I don't know, I just I know, I'm only one person, but I definitely feel like, you know, if one person can reach one person can reach one person can reach one person. Next thing, you know, we have a whole movement. And so when I see things out here that need to happen and in knowing like, Okay, well, I can't sit back and not do anything if I'm going to complain about it. So let me let me see what I can do or who's here I can I can pull on and see what we can make shake.

Maggie, RNC-OB  3:54  
Yeah. That's awesome. So what do you feel like, as you've been kind of taking this like journey over the last five years as a birth worker, what have been some of like, the big challenges, the big things that have like stuck out to you that have been hard about the journey? 

Meredith, CPM-student  4:08  
Oh, all of the burnout that I have witnessed has been, like, tumultuous, you know, being able to stop when you need to, and when you can't, you know, like, you just, it's this perpetual thing that just keeps going and going and going. And so, you know, it's really hard to sit back and take a break. When you see these things out here. These injustice is, you know, these things that are that are just wrong when people are being treated unfairly and just inhumanely. Okay, well, how can I take a vacation, and you know, that part is hard, but if you don't take the time to recharge, then you have nothing left to give. So it's a really fine line of figuring out like, okay, how am I gonna set this down for a second because You know, it's still constantly running through your head, like these things that are happening. And it's really hard to just put it down and to recharge.

Maggie, RNC-OB  5:09  
I mean, we've talked about it so many times, because I know personally that there's a lesson I am continuing to try to learn. And it just feels, it feels like so heavy. I think the last few years in particular, when everything I mean, it just feels like the hits just keep coming. And on top of generational trauma on top, like it is just constant. And I feel like that heaviness, it just can be so overwhelming. And especially in birth work where we're just we're so deeply connected with other people in these really vulnerable moments.

Meredith, CPM-student  5:46  
And that's exactly how I describe it, you know, when I'm talking to clients, and they're, like, thanking me for being a part of, you know, their birth and this and that, and I'm like, No, you have no idea how honored I am that you have chosen me to be a part of the most vulnerable experience of your life. You know, you've entrusted me with your life and your child's life. And that speaks volumes, you know, that's one of the things that keeps me going, when I'm like, I'm done, I cannot do this anymore. You know, or if you have like a super long birth, or like something that's, you know, kind of traumatic or just hard, maybe not actually traumatic, and like, you know, the true definition of the word, but just hard. Yeah. And having those clients words. Like, that's what keeps me going anyway. Yeah. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  6:46  
Oh, that's beautiful. I think in this, like, in this work will be honest, like, so deeply connected to people like having, you know, like, we all were human to, like, sometimes we need, like, we just need that reassurance, we need that sign, like from the outside that like that the path we're on is right, that we're doing the work that, you know, that we're meant to do, and that it does make a difference when I think it's very easy to just feel overwhelmed by how much one of us can do.

Meredith, CPM-student  7:11  
Yeah, absolutely. And we actually just had a client who gave birth to their last baby, they're, you know, they're choosing not to have any more. And I didn't get to be a part of the care team for the other births. But she has had history with my preceptor. And so even just like watching through this last pregnancy, and this last birth, and even in the postpartum has been really, really sweet. And you know, she brought us a card for the six week visit with a little gift card and you know, really kind words in that like, heartfelt not just like a generic, like, yeah, being part of the team. You know, like she put thought into the words that she said in my card, like, brought me to tears, you know, and I'm like, okay, okay, you're not having any more babies. But okay, I'm so glad that I got to be a part of that particular family's journey, even if it was only for one. And so, you know, I'm like, okay, there are going to be other families. But like, when I am like, in my own practice, and finish with school, and all the things and, and you know, I'll be the one that gets to be there for like, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 births or whatever. Yeah, let's one family and you know, creating this, this legacy in this journey. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  8:33  
Oh, my gosh, absolutely. Like the ripples that come from that. Yeah. Like each of those pieces that you get to be involved in. And I think so many of us have that. I know, when I look back at the people that cared for me with the births of both of my kids like, obviously, Ithink about them, often all the time in different context, but especially on their birthdays, I always think back to like, those people who were there to help me like to welcome my baby into the world, like there. There's like a huge, a huge facility and a huge reward that, you know, that comes into that. 

Meredith, CPM-student  9:00  
Mm hmm.

Maggie, RNC-OB  9:01  
I wonder, you know, when you as you keep kind of like, walking this path, what do you find, I guess, what are the things mostly, like inspire you to want to make change as you keep on your journey? 

Meredith, CPM-student  9:15  
One is representation, because there's not enough of it. There are not enough people that look like me that are helping people that look like me. And I know like, it sounds so cliche now. And we hear it all the time. And the phrase is overused, but representation matters. You know, when you go to a provider, you want them to be able to relate. You want them to be able to understand your journey. You want them to be able to understand some of your past or some of your trauma that you've been through and just be able to have this like flow of energy that just this connectedness that's more than just like, Oh, you have these you know this knowledge base This set of skills, and I have this thing that's happening in my body that you have knowledge about, we should do this, like it's not that cut and dry. And so

Maggie, RNC-OB  10:09  
we like to pretend it is. Oh, yeah.

Meredith, CPM-student  10:12  
Oh, yeah, yeah, they're really good at pretending. But um, it isn't and, and there is a level two, we can change outcomes for the better by creating these safe spaces. And that's what drives me to do what I do, you know, I want to be that safe person, I want to create this safe space, I want to be able to share the knowledge that I have, but be able to do it in a connected way where someone can feel vulnerable, but not scared to be vulnerable. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  10:46  
Yeah, yeah, there is so much. You know, I think, you know, we've talked a lot about how like, trust is earned, you know, like that. It's not just something that someone is supposed to, again, oftentimes, we are kind of taught that like, Oh, yes, that person who has "x degree", who has these experiences, like yep, you can trust them, they know what's, you know, they know what they're doing. But that on paper is completely different than the relationship you actually have with someone and the mutual trust and respect that can be there, that absolutely powers that relationship, and helps you to feel that and the cultural representation is a huge part of it, that I think we just, we so often continue to minimize when we talk about biases and racism and how that plays out. And, you know, obstetrics and nursing at large, like the systemic nature of racism in our country, is systemic, because it is everywhere, it infuses into all of these different places in in a very kind of, you know, what people consider to be the obvious pieces of it. And in those subtle ways that dictate care, and the outcome is not subtle, the outcome is increasingly worse disparities in care. I think, you know, you like it does feel cliche, like, oh, representation matters, or whatever, like, good. Those are like, kind of like Pat responses that are easy to say. But you are part of this big movement that is driving that change, as more and more Black and brown folks are joining as midwives, as nurses as doctors who are treating folks or birth because we're realizing that what we're doing what we've been doing, it's not enough, right? It is inadequate. And there are personal responsibilities for that there are systemic issues within that. But like the change has to go completely to the foundation of how we set up care and how we look for how to establish relationships with folks who are in our care.

Meredith, CPM-student  12:36  
Absolutely right. And so I was doing some research on Black maternal mortality. And one of the things that I kept coming across or looking for solutions, like how to change these outcomes, one major thing is addressing bias, implicit bias, doing like the implicit bias test for our providers, and then doing something with that information. So you can't just like, do it to say you did it like, Okay, well, now you can see that you have like, these counties are super crazy high in these, you know, in these areas of bias, and so what are we going to do about it? What kind of trainings? Can we bring in what, you know, do we need to do these culturally competence? trainings? Like, what are we going to do with that information that we have, and so one, recognizing it, and then to addressing it, and getting some of these providers out of here, that shouldn't be here that don't belong? And, you know, you have to flip the system on its head, because the way it's set up is not, it's not for us. It's just not, you know, and that's one of the things that I do love about midwifery care is we created it, you know, and so there's also a cultural piece to it, there's a spiritual piece to it, there's an ancestral piece to it, there's a calling and so the care does look different, that feels different. And in some of that is addressed in this and then also coming together and in you know, like, finding like minded people, like minded providers that will support one another so that we can have in hospital obstetric care, we can have birth center midwifery care, and we can have home birth midwifery care, and they all work seamlessly together and we can provide those choices for the people who are giving birth. In my mind, it is so simple, like, why don't we just do this? Like, what is the problem? I don't understand, like, these young people want this? They should be able to have this. Why are these barriers being put up? And you know, like, even thinking about that, like it's care, but people are not being cared for? Yeah.

Maggie, RNC-OB  14:57  
Yeah. You know, I struggle all the time when I'm writing captions for social media or whatever, you know, trying to talk about the people who are in our care. And you know, sometimes we call them clients or patients, or there's all sorts of different, you know, everyone for it, but I often come back to like, Oh, yes. Like, that's how I like to think of the people who I care for as a nurse. But are they feeling cared for? Is that the same word that they would use? Like? Not always? Yeah. No, it doesn't always feel like their health care system doesn't always feel like you're being cared for.

Meredith, CPM-student  15:29  
No. And we're not necessarily caring for people's health, we are treating symptoms. And we're not finding the root problem. We're just like, you know, putting a bandaid over things that need surgery sometimes. Yeah.

Maggie, RNC-OB  15:44  
I mean, I think that analogy is on any level to how our birth care system has been managed, and how, when we talk about these issues, when we talk about the worsening trauma mortality, that from when our parents were having us to know, it's inconceivable how miserable we have done like it, it doesn't feel real, that with all of the education and knowledge and awareness that we have around this, that we continue to see worsening rates, year, after year after year, that we continue to see these disparities get bigger, and bigger and bigger, like, It's sickening. It is like, there's no way to sugarcoat it, there's no way to whatever and so to the people who, and by people, I mean, the big players involved in this, especially like insurance companies, and people who drive the way that our medical system has been set up the way that hospital birth care workflows, though, they are more than complicit in this, they are the drivers for so many of these issues, so many of the holes that end up in our system that people get lost in that. And I feel like there is a piece of it that like, you know, throughout this whole season, as we keep thinking about like change, and I'm talking to all these people who are like trying to come up with what is their way? What is their you know that what is the footprint that they can take? That's going to put the ripples out there and change it? Yeah. And there are so many things we could do individually. But like so many of these things, we have to be able to work together as a part of a bigger system. And so these healthcare insurance companies that control so much of how care care, again, in quotes, is delivered. Yeah, yeah, that is it, their day in the sun has to it has to go like it's not the what we have set up, it's not working, we are on the wrong path.

Meredith, CPM-student  17:40  
It's majorly problematic. I have definitely I've seen clients or I've see I've had friends even you know, who have switched insurance companies, because they were forced to what you know, either through like changing employment or, like, just life circumstances, and then they can't go see the same provider that they've been seeing for years, or you know, just like their favorite provider, because they're no longer in networks. Literally, you know, nobody moved, it's just nothing gonna pay, who's gonna pay for it, you know? And then it paying out a network is ridiculous. Like, why that even exists? I don't even know.

Maggie, RNC-OB  18:17  
Yeah, but no, and the way we have monetize that, like you were talking about with choices, and being able to meet people where they are and what kind of sport that they want, and their, you know, birth setting. Like, I was just talking to a friend yesterday, whose daughter is interested in a home birth, and a major barrier, is figuring out how they can afford it. Mm hmm. Because they can go to the local hospital. And it is essentially all cared for. But to choose a home birth, that is her choosing to do something out of network. Yeah, and so she has to come up with $4,000 to pay for home birth. When we continue to set up this like, that kind of like false dichotomy, even in like, how we pay for it, it continues to, like, make these chasms between, like birth settings between provider ideologies between ways of, you know, giving birth, it just makes it feel like so separate. So different, like it just keeps widening that chasm that folks have to choose from instead of like the collaborative care model where people have access to like a well integrated system where they flow back and forth and get what they need. Well,

Meredith, CPM-student  19:28  
it's money talks, you know what I mean? Like these big businesses essentially are trying to get paid and they're, you know, they're trying to make profits off of it. Because at the end of the day, someone who was having a home birth, and you know, the cost is $4,000. That's significantly less than what it actually costs for a hospital birth. Absolutely, but the whole of it is coming out of their pocket. versus having an insurance company help to pay for it. And so that's one of the things that we've brought up to our legislators is, you know, working on like Medicaid coverage? And how do we get insurance companies to cover homebirth midwives, because we're actually saving money, because it costs less to have a home birth than it does in a hospital. And if you are low risk, and are planning to have, you know, a normal physiological birth, and you want to do that at home, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to. Yeah, it's not less safe, like a lot of people think and there's a whole lot of things we just have to change about the whole narrative of, of home birth in general, but cost wise, you know, it is less expensive. And so we could be saving this state's money, but we can't get insurance companies to come on board because they're not making money. Right. Right.

I mean, I think the whole idea of like, we were talking before the recording about just like, for profit and nonprofit organizations, and how that all like plays back. And yeah, but there is something that's just so antithetical to like for profit healthcare, like it just feels insane, that obviously like the people who individually are providing care, like absolutely need to be reimbursed and compensated for their work. Sure. But that so many of our care decisions are dictated by insurance companies reimbursements. And how will they you know, how will they plan for something and how they're going to jack up rates for this or what they're going to choose to cover? And how much time you have to battle with them about that. It's actually dealing like, with your health, actually taking care of yourself? 

Right and they're not consistent because we can build insurance out of network, and sometimes they cover some stuff. Well, I'll say that, at least here in Kentucky. Yeah. But you know, you might have anthem or whatever, we'll cover, you know, $200 for one client and 3000 for another when you've put in the exact same bill coves. Yeah. No, it's insane. I mean, it's for no reason. Like it, they have, you know, they have the same or comparable plans and everything like that. And it's just like, oh, okay, like, I really feel like it's just playing like Russian roulette. We'll see what happens. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  22:15  
yeah. Yeah. And that like how, like, disappointing that is to feel like, you're like livelihood. This is we're talking about a lot of money. That is hanging the balance between like, who whoever happens to be pressing that claim? Which button they hit, how they interpret what something and again, like, we spend the most on health care, every country in the world. And then to watch again, like, you know, the maternal mortality stats come out for 2020. And again, we have only gotten worse. And that that, you know, the disparity gap, especially for Black birthing people is so, so much higher, it's asking us to climb astronomical, like to know that we spend all this money, we have so much money for health care, and we have such a dismal and two thirds of those maternal deaths are preventable, right? Completely like this is it is in our control to change. What have you seen, you know, as you keep pushing, obviously, so much of your work is grounded in creating equitable health care, equitable birth care? How do you process can you share a little bit about that? Like, does it feel like again, the hits just keep coming? You know, how do you process when we get like new information, new stats out like that, that just can feel really overwhelming, it can make it feel like the change that what we're doing doesn't matter.

Meredith, CPM-student  23:34  
So I have some really solid midwifery friends, some are students, some are senior midwives, my preceptor being one and we, you know, when we see things come out, or we, you know, we hear things or we hear up different cases or whatever, you know, whatever it might be taking time to really process through it in like, you know, what I like to call that check, you know, where you can just like, say, whatever it is that you need to say, like, no filter, no, nothing, you know, like, say all the words, anything that comes to mind and just, you know, whatever you need to say, to get that initial feeling out of your gut. And then, you know, then kind of unpacking it. Okay, so, what are we seeing here? What is this mean? How does that affect us? How does that affect our clients? And then what are we going to do about it? Okay, is this something we can fight? Who do we go to, to change? What's happening? You know, I don't really have a great answer besides that, like, besides just having a core team of people that know me and get me and I know them and I get them and it's, we've created our own safe space to then be able to deal with the things that come down the line, cuz sometimes it just sucks you know, in in, you're like, Okay, what? Yeah, why did that just happen? 

Maggie, RNC-OB  24:57  
And that is so importantly, that we, you know, we know that Like being able to pause, be able to process being able to like release some of that, like absolutely those are all like, healthy things that we need to do like packing things down does us no good letting things kind of fester. And I love that reminder about like, community so important and vital in this work. And I think that's a theme that's come up with a lot of people, we talked to you who have found ways to like push through and to have longevity in this career. Because, you know, there are some people who get involved. And obviously we see it in people across, you know, all spectrums, all disciplines, you know, within birth care, be that, you know, birth worker, doulas, nurses, physicians, midwives, who, you know, they a couple years in, they're like, I can't, I just can't do it anymore. I can't feel this, this hurt. And being able to, like, find people to process that with, like you were talking about earlier, be able to find those spaces to like, take a break, to literally be off call to have backups, so that you can actually just know that you can use the phone and it's okay, someone else is there and like holding the line while you're gone, it's like, and

Meredith, CPM-student  26:01  
our practice has been working really, really hard to ensure that we all get time off that we all have time off call that we have time with our families that we have time for vacation. You know, we've brought in another midwife who is going to help with that as well. So, so that, you know, the senior midwives can get breaks and the students can get breaks. And there's already kind of been like a little bit of a weight lifted, because we've got in our chart, you know, we've like, it's shows like, okay, Meredith is on vacation on Yeah, no, on these days. And so every time I open the chart, I'm like, actually, we usually would have a client picture, but we've changed it to a picture of a beach so that we know like it's vacation, even if we're not going to age doesn't matter. Yeah, just that visual reminder of like, okay, you know, like, respite is coming?

Unknown Speaker  26:51  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it ebbs and flows

Meredith, CPM-student  26:55  
Yeah, and then I am really, really excited. We were talking about it a little bit earlier, but this November, I will be on retreat, as well. So I'll be a part of the Midwifery Wisdom Conference. And then the last part of that is retreat. And so a lot of that is for that purpose of, you know, midwives coming together, you know, coming home coming together into our community, and we're gonna get to, to really just like be, and we're not on call. And, you know, it's like a dream, like, oh, my gosh, some of my favorite people from all around the country are all going to be in one space for like, five days. And we're just going to get to be together and experience one another. And it's really especially exciting because of how shut down everything has been for the last few years. Yeah. So getting to do this in person. And yeah, it's really looking forward to retreat this year. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  27:51  
That's amazing. Yeah, it's good for the soul. So it's necessary, it's necessary for us to be able to keep going and keep pushing through this work. It's like finding those pockets to like break in. And just to be and I love that. And then there was one thing you were talking about earlier. And I would love like, if you want to share a little bit more about us to do you want to talk a little bit about like art project that you're creating, and how you're kind of highlighting the beauty in Black birth as well. 

Meredith, CPM-student  28:14  
Yes, yes. so first school, we have to do an art project. And so what I chose to do is video, so it'll incorporate video and photography and some quotes. So just some, you know, some like verbage for clients, from friends from, like, clients of friends. And you know, just what I want to do is highlight the beauty and the joy of black birth and pregnancy and postpartum, kind of in juxtaposition to this whole crazy outcomes that we're hearing about, you know, we hear a ton about how horrible it is and how scary it is, and how like, you know, you're three to four more times likely to die in childbirth, or childbirth causes if you're black, you know, and all these things then so that can make a really scary experience for someone. And so I want to show the opposite. Because what we're doing here, what my purpose is, is to ensure that those things don't happen to ensure that, you know, we're changing those outcomes. So we're going to highlight I want to highlight the beauty and the joy of black birth. And you know, just coming together with other black birthing people and really celebrating life. It is so beautiful and so powerful. Yeah, like,

Unknown Speaker  29:34  
I can't wait to see what you create with that and like they're definitely able to share, 

Meredith, CPM-student  29:39  
I will definitely share it when it's finished. I can't I'm excited about it. I've been working on it. I've got some you know, some things that have already some pictures I've already taken and I've talked to a few clients and friends who are like, Oh, I'd love to be a part of that. So you know, we're going to do some more postpartum photoshoots and getting some quotes as well. Ernie and their experience

Maggie, RNC-OB  29:59  
That's incredible while we will be eagerly awaiting for you to share that with us and, and keep highlighting that, like I just I love your spirit and your passion for this work and how you keep pushing through to to make a change and to model the way that you want to show up in this work and the way you want to care for your colleagues, your friends, your loved ones who are doing this as well. It is very inspiring, and sharing over you for sharing so much about your journey. Is there anything else you want to share with us? Or can you tell us where to kind of find you and follow you on the internet?

Meredith, CPM-student  30:30  
Sure. So I have recently, sort of I'll say rebranded but not exactly rebranded, but I am I'm moving I'm no longer taking doula clients I have shifted over to midwifery care. And so I am now the Walking Stick Midwife instead of the walking stick doula services so you can find me on Instagram and on Facebook at the walking stick midwife. I do have a website as well, which is the walking stick.org Yeah. And email is Meredith walking stick that

Maggie, RNC-OB  31:02  
we will look forward to keeping in touch and seeing everything that you keep growing and all the the change the ripples from you.

Meredith, CPM-student  31:08  
Thanks so much, Maggie.

Unknown Speaker  31:09  
Thanks. Well, I am just so honored and grateful to Meredith for coming on and sharing so much of her personal journey with all of us. As you look to make changes in your own practice, that center, those who are so often oppressed, that uplift the rights of all birthing people to create the birth experience that will honors their needs their wants. I invite you to join us in the Your BIRTH Partners Community group on Facebook. There you'll be joined by a diverse community of change agents in birth care who are looking to transform the system together. We look forward to seeing you there. Till next time