Birthcare Rooted in Community #072

As we continue our season around centering community in our birth work, I am really excited to be having a return guest, one of the very first people who truly made me feel welcomed into a community of other birth workers is Pansay Tayo of Sacred Butterfly Births & the Sacred Pause Red Room. 

Pansay back to share some of her wisdom as she has come to define her birth work is something that must be rooted in community. For those of you who are feeling overwhelmed by all that needs to change in birth care. Pansay has a wealth of ideas to share, as we look to make subtle adjustments to our practice, to ground ourselves and our work in our clients in their community.

Join us to discuss:
~The power of sitting in circle
~Shedding perfection and embracing vulnerability
~Normalizing the challenges of pregnancy & parenthood
~Creating physical environments that tend to all the senses
~Healing generational trauma through birth
~Supporting the mind-body-spirit in tandem

Learn more about Pansay and connect with her work.

Transcript

Maggie, RNC-OB  0:03  
Welcome to your birth partners, the podcast identifying gaps, acknowledging biases, and co-creating a trauma informed standard of birth care with change agents across the spectrum of birth work. I'm your host Maggie Runyon. I'm a birth nurse, educator and advocate who has been searching since 2010. The answers to how to provide better care during pregnancy, birth and postpartum. Through my own pregnancies and supporting births in home and hospitals around the country. I've seen firsthand many the systemic flaws that exist in perinatal care. Through these conversations, I'm thrilled to share with you insights and inspiration as we work collectively to transform birth care.

As we continue our season around centering community in our birth work, I am really excited to be having a return guest one of the very first people who truly made me feel welcomed into a community of other birth workers is Pansay Tayo, she is an exceptional birth worker, friend, Mother grandmother. She is someone who started your birth partners from the ground up with us as we launched the podcast. And I am so excited to have her back to share some of her wisdom as she has come to define her birth work is something that happens in community. For those of you who are feeling overwhelmed by all that needs to change in birth care. Pansay has a wealth of ideas to share, as we look to make subtle adjustments to our practice, to root ourselves our work in our clients in their community. I hope you feel as inspired as I am by her journey. And what she has come to learn about sharing more of herself with other birth workers and of her clients of accepting her vulnerability, and of all learning and growing together on to the show. 

Well, Pansay a welcome back, you are always just a treasured guest to have with us here on the podcast. And I am just really excited to dive into everything that you kind of bring into the community space, how are you have built and continue to facilitate your work with in community, as we were just you know, talking off camera, you embody what it means to do this birth work and community to me and you have from literally the first moment that I met you. And so I would really love for you to just share some of your journey and your experiences with us as those of us who are out here still kind of seeking and figuring out the ways that we can find our community and be in it with those who we work with and those we serve.

Pansay, Doula  2:26  
Thank you, thank you, thank you, it's always an honor to be in the safe space with you. I'm sure that its purpose this way that this particular podcast is centered around community because more of that has been shifting within my realm of work even more that, you know, that has been previously. So this feels so aligned. This is probably repetitive I hate to be repetitive. But the community of sisters in women and expecting families that I serve, all of it started with my meat needs when I was just moving into the seasons of pregnancy. And just recognizing what I was lacking what was not there, even within the family setting what was being taught to me, shown to me, I'm looking at the support system while I was pregnant and even postpartum. It's funny, I was just thinking about that this morning. It's not often that I allow my mind go like deeply into my birth experiences. And I was thinking about postpartum like Did anybody come over and like I just remember my dad coming over? Yet remember a woman you know, like Auntie's grandma, to come over. So with that out of those needs, and eventually realizing that the things that I was suffering from as a woman and yearning for from community, it became real clear that I was not the only one. And once I realized that I had the questions in my mind of why, why isn't there a place a safe space for me to go where it's likely to show me a blueprint? You know, how I'm gonna keep my body healthy. During this pregnancy? What are some of the things that I should expect? How do I prevent some of these pregnancy ailments, even, you know, tips on mothering well; it just was not there. So as I started to do my lower again, it just became more and more clear as I would meet clients, that they were suffering in yearning from the same things that the settings the community that cocoon, be the embodiment of circles of women in support, just was not there. And I really believe that we are stronger together, that as much as society tries to picture us as being cattie and against each other. I noticed that as women when we do gather, and gather together and recognize our commonalities, and when we bring the wisdom that we've learned from our family settings, Right, and we talk about it and share and it's like, oh, okay, that's helpful. Even our experiences that we are embarrassed about. That was one of the biggest thing that was shown to me that your BIGGEST EMBARRASSMENT is going to help the community of the sisters. And it did. So I set out at first looking for community, and I could not find it. And then given the vision to create the first Red Room in Catonsville, Maryland to bring the sisters together. And we came together for childbirth education, you know, small, intimate settings for childbirth education for mentorship for some of the newer doulas because this was my vision, and people were drawn to it, they were really drawn to it the way I decided to do and not just looking at the physical body of pregnancy and births, but to also tap into the mental spiritual part of it. So we just come together came together to share. But to my surprise that those settings ended up being more focus on the mental and spiritual and emotional of the doula, right, they became very personal circles where the doulas were suffering themselves. So another big, enlightening moment that yes, as birth workers, we are out here serving to help change the climate of birth. But what needs to be looked at that there needs to be a safe space for for healing, for processing our own birth trauma out, and then our own experiences of birth, for birthworkers also so with that I created the you know, just as a monthly check in. So the dove was where we came together to talk about our birth experiences with clients and some of that birth trauma. But with my clients, once I really got the gist of how it should flow from the time I meet the client, what should be the first some of the first sessions we go through, and that is tapping into some of the fears and challenges that they've experienced over their life. And then moving into childbirth education, those sessions were one on one. But then, you know, after that, you know, we meet in circle with all of the other mothers. So yeah, and what I found that majority of us, again, have things that we are embarrassed about things that we think we're the only one going through this. And then when we find ourselves in circle of community, and other women that look like us, they understand that our backgrounds that understand our traumas, the walls could fall, like to take this armor off this armor down, and just be free to speak without judgment. You feel that this sisters are listening. And it's almost an excitement, even though we have you know, some trauma to talk about. It's exciting that, wow, you understand, you really understand and relate to what I'm feeling what I have experienced is what have I experienced, even though we may not take everybody's recommendations or advice, right, you take what feels good, and you leave the rest. The importance of being in that safe space with those women journeying down the same road hearing that, Okay, at this moment, I don't feel connected to my baby, that I'll feel embarrassed to say that within this sacred space, it's okay. Yeah, then I know that majority, I mean, most likely, it's gonna stay away. Right? So we're able to, to witness to hold space to deep listen, to give that nourishment to give them talks, and they leave with a spirit lifted, right and excited to come back and return in addition to want to do better, you know, better. And over the years, I've seen even more change in the bursts as I kept this as my practice of them coming together often to share and celebrate each other. And you know, honor each other for the magnificent experiences of pregnancy that they were journey for the women out stronger? Well, I'm gonna say this year since that has been, you know, truly put into effect that this is the way I doula This is the first year that I've missed this many births that I have not attended. I missed them. Because my moms were so confident. Wow. And the stairs have been removed. They have set in circle that women that believed in themselves educated themselves, right. They did the emotional work. They dealt with the trauma they started making healing process. And when those surges started, they stood in that divine feminine power and call was created for this. And guess what pains they didn't make it?

You know, it's been about four or five and nobody's upset. They said, You prepared me for this. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  10:22  
That's wild.

Pansay, Doula  10:23  
I never thought that I would have been able to do this. Without you. They thought the power was connected to me. But it was the power within the circle of us growing, shedding, learning, building each other, up and down against physically seeing women that look like them do this very thing that when they entered into the circle, they thought that they could not majority of them. I don't think I could do this. Or maybe I'll just have to do it at the hospital. Most of my hospital moms came in and transitioned into homebirths. Wow, yes, we could just sitting in circle, like what I'm capable, like, really. And my mom's at birth in the hospital setting. You know, our goal is to prevent unnecessary interventions. Once they come seeking, they came seeking VBACs, which I had to this year, and two of them did end up in society. And guess what, totally different. They were in charge. They knew what their doctors were talking about. They did not feel push, they both experienced being able to labor at home labored at home as long as possible. And the question was asked, Do you want to do this? Once they knew they have tried everything, everything, when they both wheeled back in that room, the smiles on their face like was the this was the best decision, which was totally opposite from their first experience. So even with those they give thanks for the sisterhood for the peripheral input, the education, for the empowerment for the listening, and the healing that took place I can't see during this doula work any other way. And when I look at the history of how our ancestors cared for us, I see why I see why it was done this way. Because you feel that I'm not doing this alone. And the moments where I'm not feeling my best, or if I have feared fears or challenges I for one, I have a resource that I can go to ask questions without judgment. And I can leave, educated and then feeling empowered, all of these things kind of branch over into the everyday life outside of pregnancy. Right? Yeah, it's, it's attached to womanhood, it's all attached to who you are just like I was taught growing up to seek the medical and listen to everything that they say they know best, right kind of retraining our minds that there is a innate wisdom that we have, and to get out of that mindset of just giving our power. So this seeps into your work world, your relationship where all these areas where they are now stronger, and I see it, you know, we really shed light on the rebirth, we all look forward to the rebirth how, because I can see it in their face. So once that baby comes out, they are no longer the same woman. And that's the part that I'm very excited about the rebirth of the woman, and to see them on the other side, just so strong, and completely in awe of themselves. Right, completely in awe of themselves. But they can definitely say that we did this, we did this,

Maggie, RNC-OB  13:56  
oh gosh, the way that like that reverberates for them, you know, into their life into those into each person that they're then going to talk to when they see someone who's expecting a baby, the way that that changes. I mean, you just shared so many like powerful insights, I want to highlight a couple that jumped out at me that I think we often when we're in conversation with folks, we get kind of questions about that, or this is the part that people don't understand like, okay, they love their hear what you're saying. All of that sounds amazing. Yes, we all want. We want that to ourselves. We want that for our clients. We want that for folks as they're going through birth. I think the one thing the biggest piece of probably all that is the vulnerability piece for clients, for pregnat people as they're sitting there. They're sharing, like you said, everyone has those like those deep, dark, scary thoughts that you think I'm the only person who's feeling that and that is almost always categorically untrue. There are other people out there having those, are there certain things you can share that you overlooked that have helped for clients to open up in vulnerability with each other with you with their partner or with you know, with other people who are in their community? And second part of that question, that vulnerability between birth workers because that's definitely one thing that we really want to highlight throughout this whole season. It's something that's coming up with each guest that I'm talking to so far is that piece of where we kind of create this, like, the picture perfect version of ourself that we want to put out there to the world that we maybe want to be, we want to be this fully, actualized, I have it all together, whatever piece of ourselves that we know other stuff, we've already done the work we have, you know, we're here, we want to have that out, we want to feel confident with our clients, all that stuff, I think, sometimes it puts up walls between us and our clients. Because we feel like we have to know everything and two, it puts up walls between us and other birth workers, we end up seeing it as like a value exchange, like I can only be in community with you, if I'm gonna give you XYZ tip that I already know, I can't share these doubts, these concerns, these worries, this trauma that I have, because then I'm like taking away this space, we're belly. And those are that it breaks my heart, that we continue to hear those themes coming up over and over people as they are searching so desperately for a community to be in. And then they want to bring that to their clients. So I would love for you to dive in kind of that like vulnerability piece of it.

Pansay, Doula  16:02  
Yes. And I hope this answers answers a question. We were in circle. And we were actually talking about this. And one of the clients said, this is one of the main reasons why I chose you, because you do not pretend to be perfect. I share my traumas, I share my birth. So no, I wasn't always at this place when I was birthing my children. My first child, I had everything they said that I should have, I did not know I share my challenges of mothering three children, and even the darkest, the darkest, hard parts of mothering. I talk to them about that often, because that's one of the things that was not shared to me, it was made to seem like "oh the bills just get paid." And thanks to you know, it's all good. And I feel that's what just snatched me down. So

Maggie, RNC-OB  16:53  
So you don't feel like you're experiencing that it's a personal failing, right? Yes.

Pansay, Doula  16:57  
But the other part of that, I feel because I see my mentees, and when they come they're ready to jump into birth work. But you see the trauma themselves. So just as I hate to stop the healing process for me, I don't teach or do any activities or participate in anything with my clients that I have not first done for me. And that's how I know it works. And I say it's going to work for everyone. I mean, I see exactly what you're talking about as far as the perfection there and teaching and showing them that is so much beauty in imperfection. Right? The other part of that, how do we get them to allow these walls to fall. going back to me, it's just my setup, my walls are up. So you know, just so thick from childhood trauma going into other things just life itself. So how do we make them feel safe, I feel that a separation needs to take place. Even when I have consultations and the couple is there in the home, I can see they're picking and choosing their words. Right? When we are in our regular environments, where the agitation is connected to the challenge is connected to we, most times we can allow our walls to fall. So to bring them to a safe space. When it's like okay, this is cool. This feels it feels good in here. Right, which is the Sacred Pause Red Room. And in that space, of course, I feel that you should entice all the senses, they see very inspirational things, the music that they're listening to is calming the senses calming. And then to get them in that safe space. And even when they you know circle, much better experience of I could breathe you can compare it to when you walk into a spa. What does this all do to allow you to relax if we use that approach for setting up birth spaces, whether in the hospital or home, to entice all of those senses, remove them from their day to day hustle and bustle challenges, all these things and bring them to a safe space to allow the mind the spirit and the body to take a pause that we can move on to discussing the things that don't feel so good.

Maggie, RNC-OB  19:34  
Oh, yeah, that's so true. And I wonder too, you know, you have been so intentional about creating that space, you know, that you invite people into and I think that is something that certainly it's not gonna look the exact same for every community. Each people are gonna want different things, but thinking for folks who you know, who have hospital based practices, how can you create that space in your office environment thinking that you know, you go in to speak to your obstetrician, and you're sitting there too gonna have this conversation with him about stuff. And there's like the exam table and that stirrups are sitting right there. Even in that environment, if you're doing your best to make like the content that you're talking about very trauma informed, whatever, you're still in that space that you know, is very like medical, it's the sense the smells of everything, they're like, it's there. And so thinking about how we can still transition, you know, I think what so many good like Centering Pregnancy classes do for like, you know, hospital based birth care, but where they have, there's a room that people go to, to have their physical exam piece of the visit done, here, you know, behind the corner behind it, a drape, whatever, that's over here. And then when they are with together and circle, they are physically in a different space. Yes, you're over here, right? Maybe you've got the rug put out, you have some more comfortable seating, you've got maybe there's a candle or incense or something is bringing in those other scents, like, the way that each of us can think about bringing that into our practices, again, everyone's gonna have different environments. Like how you still kind of even how you bring that if you're going to a home visit for someone, what are those things that you can kind of pack in a bag that you've set up to kind of establish that like, this is a new space, that's why we are focused on this, like healing work together instead of drinking. So I just I love that imagery. And I think that's something that's like really helpful. And just to be aware of that, and even just in the way that we acknowledge it to someone, if you can treat that environment, perhaps just saying, Hi, I know, I know, we're sitting here right now. And you might be distracted by X, or Y or Z. Having just that awareness of that and how it's going to impact your conversations. Yes, yeah. Very different sharing in that way.

Pansay, Doula  21:40  
Absolutely. Absolutely. This reminds me of a OB we have here in Maryland, I know that she recognizes this component of connecting to the spirit, mind and the emotional part of the Divine woman because of course, she has her her exam room. But then you come to talk to her in her office. Oh, yes. And when when you get and she wowed me the first time you get in her office, you see all the pictures of her and her children. Beautiful phrases. You can do this, you got this? I mean, wow. And the first thing that I got from it is that she's a mother. I seen her children's drawings all on her own, okay, she gets it she you know, she's a woman, she gets a so even that as a doula, because sometimes I have to come up with the armor up some, you know, protection mode for my client. So Oh, okay. And then we begin conversation. So even that was a difference. It was a difference, a personable space to connect and kind of say that we have commonalities, not above you. Yes. Right. I'm not. Yeah.

Maggie, RNC-OB  22:46  
And I, we've talked about that before, but that veneer of like, quote, unquote, professionalism, yes. And that hierarchy of birth care that ends up getting played into that, like thinking about how we each need to let go of those pieces. Yes, in order to actually be in community. You know, that's the whole idea of what we're doing everything here is about this collaborative community. How do we let go of those pieces that keep us apart that separate us that try to put us like in our own elevation, right, like, you know, you picture a doctor's office where you walk in, and they've got, you know, all of their diplomas on the wall, which is nothing wrong with that. Absolutely. Like, that's great that they're, you know, like, proud of their education and everything. But how it feels if you walk in and it feels so sterile like that. Everything is very like, Yep, this is how I am a medical professional is like blaring at you. Yes. Versus the inclusion of those other pieces of themselves. Like I have so many of us birth workers, it's that again, it's that peace of needing to feel like we have to put ourselves in a box, show up in this work to show that we are like legitimate. Yes. Again, have you quotes Yeah, versus like the real power that comes with showing that like, I'm a whole person, a whole person. I'm also a mother. I've also felt I also am dealing with these challenges. I also don't have it figured out. So I'm coming into this community, open looking knowing I am going to give and receive things from each other, like how much we just how different that community space looks when we can do that.

Pansay, Doula  24:10  
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. That's beautiful. And that's it. That's exactly it. Right. It's through my experience that I want better for you. That's why I'm doing this. Knowing that the circle wisdom, the education, the intimate settings will help us all grow and sell stronger. No judgement. Nobody's in here trying to be why they got it all together, because we don't

Maggie, RNC-OB  24:40  
let that go. And we're laughing. We've all done I've done it. I know I've done it. You tried to show up like Yeah, I know all this stuff. I've got it. I'm like, you know, yeah, I already like I'm sitting up on camera, right? Like, I feel like yeah, I'm here. Shoulders back. I'm like ready to do that. Instead of being able to be like, Yeah, I'm just gonna curl up and be here and like, I'm kind of slumping in a ball because also Yeah, I'm tired too. It's like you Yeah, I don't know that even those kind of pieces to have like, I think when you were talking about, you know, your clients this year, how many of them have have not even realized like that, oh, it's time I need you to be here because they didn't need you to be there. And again, that power shift within themselves, yes, they were able to recognize that. And then, like you said, for those, because again, we recognize the validity of all birth experiences in all settings. That's the way that people want to give birth. Yes, for those folks who then ended up having a cesarean birth, that they were still had done be able to do that work, they still felt confident, they felt like they were coming into that community space with their providers with the eventual the hospital, they still felt like they were also equal. So they're having this conversation, not that something is being done to them, or somebody talking down to them, but that they are entering it with all of this knowledge and awareness to so they are showing up feeling equal, like yep, this is my thing. I'm here to tell you about my birth, these are things I've worked through, I know I've already done this. So I'm now ready for that, like just that difference is so profound. And that is something that all of us can be a part of making sure folks know that each part we are kind of like taking away the professionalism veneer that we have to make sure that folks feel like we are, you know, we're approachable, we're here with you, but also that intangible that we are building them up. This is your birth. What are you want, what is important to you, and making it so that they you know, we keep kind of eating the scale so that we are lower, and they are higher so that they know they are coming to us. It's Hey, I could use your support right now. Well, sorry, they are pulling us into their community instead of us like barely letting them squeeze into our like, bubble. absolutely different. That's a different feeling.

Pansay, Doula  26:39  
Yes. And even as you were saying, I was thinking about the family settings when the family as a whole sometimes I meet with the family as they you know, having conversation with the doula again, the community of family. I'm not coming to take anybody's position. Sometimes you have to be the mother of the client, right? Yes, yeah. Daughter, and you know, I'm not coming to take your position, I'm just the die in the system. I'm going to ask you do you need water? When I asked her? Does she know she me water? What ex husband, if he needs some water? I'm coming to support and his birth work? Because if we bring ourselves to the event to our clients, family setting, it's just a guide and to serve to help. No, I'm not up here. How can I assist you? How can I make this make all of this just better for everyone, but the show you how to do get squeezes because I don't want to touch your daughter you want to you want to assist? Right? That's, that's important, you know, for nourishing the family setting of birth.

Maggie, RNC-OB  27:41  
and I feel like how we each of our roles is going to look a little different, but how we build up that community for their their communities outside of us too. And how do we, like you said, you know, when you're reflecting on your early birth, thinking like who was there who showed up for me, the ways that we encourage and let them know like that that is normal? That is not you being needy or extra like this is expected? Because you are having this huge transformation on all levels of yourself. You need and want deserve community of people. So how do we help to bring like you said, bringing those people in bringing the partner and I It boggles my mind how many folks will share about their birth experience at hospital and they'll be like, no one ever even asked like my partner's name. Just that is like baseline takes three seconds, just not even acknowledging that like there is another person here who is also like becoming a parent for support at this point, you know, like that? No one is people aren't paying attention to their parents or their visitors who are coming. And I know, again, I feel like that's where we have this opportunity to support them as they connect to facilitate those conversations where we talk about so Hey, how's this gonna look? When we go home? What are you? Yes, we're gonna just had a baby, what do you you know, want and we're having this conversation with whoever it is, whether it's their, you know, their parent, their friend, their cousin, their partner, whoever else is there with them, we have that opportunity to like facilitate that for them as they leave our space as we're not going to be as right there. With them walking through, we still help them to find those other pieces and draw it in and discuss some of that vulnerability and say, Hey, you might see x talking through some of those dead bait hormonal transitions, we're gonna see talking about those warning signs, both physical, mental, emotional spirit, all of those things we can kind of like, Hey, these are some things that happen to a lot of people. These are the things we can look out, or these are things we want you to know, look with these people, they are here with you now. They want to be here with you if you're struggling. So please reach out like those who I feel like we just we have that opportunity that so many of us don't have that they don't have anyone helping maybe to draw their community in. Right, right, who was him as well and I don't know and again, keep just stripping away that. Those walls we have that was acceptable to talk about with each other, like the hard stuff the

Pansay, Doula  29:47  
way Yeah, it feels like whenever we disconnect the human experience from the emotional and spiritual experience, that's where we run into trouble. Oh, Every birth worker, every medical professional OB, doula look at the person as a whole. What if we ran questions through our mind? Like, what could this pregnancy be bringing up for them? What is the home environment? Like? What is the relationship status? Do they even want to be pregnant? If we look at all of those things as a whole, how did they see pregnancy and birth when they was growing up? I think we would just do a better job of serving, if we looked at the whole body as a whole. But when what just this is a physical experience, we're missing it. We're missing it. And I clearly see the difference, even in my clients and their births from the beginning, when I really didn't know how to do this. But look at him as a whole. We need community we need resources we need, you know, we need to pull from but their needs are things that they are just lacking support system. Yeah. But to be able to nurture the body during these beautiful transitions. Yes, we got to come together. Oh, my gosh,

Maggie, RNC-OB  31:03  
yeah, I feel like that's probably hard to pick just one. But I feel like that is maybe one of the major failings of our whole birth care environment right now is the way that we have drawn those lines between like, this is a physical process that is happening to your body, we try to create that separation, as if that uterus is not also attached to everything else that person is going through in their environment. You know, we've talked at length about those two, like all of the ways that, again, like you said, our childhood experiences, our relationships now, our work environment, our home environment, like all of that has an impact on yesterday, like physical and the health of that baby. Yeah, it is. Also all those things are impacting us. emotional and mental levels as we go through this. And I really feel like that our desire in the medical system to separate Yep, you've got a circulatory system, you got a respiratory like, it's all like boop, boop boop. And I understand that the way that we maybe, conceptualize and learn about them as like, these are the functions they have. But I actually like the way that we then don't connect that to the mind is a body the body is the mind like there really is no, right, because we see, we see the way that trauma shows that we have such good we have obviously powerful anecdotes, as folks share this about the experience. And so many folks have done the work of like putting all that research together to show that like this is for folks who need that, like, yes, one objective data, we have that too. We also have so much that shows how this trauma, it shows up in our bodies, it shows up in our relationships, in our experiences. And I just I believe so strongly in like the way you talk through at the beginning, the way you share how all of these women coming together. They're having a shared physical experience. And then they connect that they're also having this shared, maybe emotional experience a shared mental thing. They're having this shared spiritual transformation like that all of these things, they're not just happening to that one system that it helps to, yes, like, layer that in their mind to and take some of those away. And no, gosh,

Pansay, Doula  33:11  
if I can add to that thing, it made me think about a lot of the circles, you know, I had them to bring their mothers mm day, or whoever the support person is going to be. And I can tell you that it's probably not one time that a mom came in, and certainly she just cry, just cry, we did not have this, I hear that so much. We did not have this and I'm so grateful that my daughter, or that my child has this and can hear the birth trauma, just as they talk. This has to change. How do we change this? Bring the children too I want the children. So I want the children in circle sometimes too become adults might not understand everything. They see this body of women talking and sharing and experiencing and crying and supporting and witnessing each other. Right? I want that memory to be in their minds, and they'll grow to understand, but we need those type of memories in our children's.

Maggie, RNC-OB  34:13  
Oh my god, yeah, normalizing it just showing that this thing this is it is totally normal to want and crave that connection, to seek it out to share those emotions that are challenging that you don't even understand. That's it. You don't have to already have processed all and never understood it. Put it out there. Get it out there. So you can speak through it and oh gosh, I don't know. So as you know, as we kind of wrap up this conversation, I would love you to share spin your vision. What does community birth care look like? Or the future for your children for your grandchildren? As they go into this? 

Pansay, Doula  34:47  
I guess how it looks. Now they are you know, they're very involved in everything that I do. The two little ones actually got called to a birth about two weeks ago. Smash them out of the bed and run to the birth But the way they see it right now is they see pregnant women doing yoga together, they see pregnant women meditating together, we come together they eat, they see circles where we might just, you know, be doing crafts, we were creating things for our workspace. They see women crying all the time. But they're not fearful of that they because they know that this is the safe space, where we get to decompress, and release, you know, all of these things. But we're doing it in a setting of support, where I have support I really want and my vision for this year. But you said that because my vision is to make this bigger, how can I help more women with finances do not have to be like to have you as my doula to have all these things, but I can't afford it. Looking at the shifts of births, threats, I began this work this year, I feel that it has been kind of sealed for me that this is the way it's supposed to be done. Because it's not just birth stories lives have been changed, husbands lives have been changed partners have been change. The mothers lives have been changed, the grandmothers lives have been changed. So to keep this community in my prayer is that I'm able to show other doulas and other birth workers how to do this. I do plan on talking to a few midwives this year to see if somebody will be open to doing centering care with what I already have going online. Because it seems it works. Yeah, it's working. So for my children and grandchildren to know that you'd have options to know that their support systems to know that there are safe spaces, to know that you have choices, to know that the spiritual, the mental and the emotional is a part of the sacred transition into womanhood into pregnancy, and also postpartum. Where is community must the baby is out weirs community once the new woman is unfolding. Who's bringing her food? Who's cleaning the house? Who's getting her water? Who was assisting with breastfeeding, holding the baby while she showers? Tell her it's okay. Those days where she's just crying and bawling. What have I done? How did I get here? Yeah. Oh, life? days, those days? Yes. But for them to my prayer is that they know how to do it. That's my legacy that yes, if nothing else, let these girls know how to tend and care for women how I am. But as of right now, I'm excited to share their thoughts on both what they think about it, and even at the ages, where they are. Yes, yes. Yes. I hope I answered that. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  37:47  
Oh my gosh, yes. No, I mean, such like, I can see it that, you know, like that vision for how, I guess, you know, we talk all the time about how this is generational work, this is not changes in a minute. And that can feel overwhelming at times, but also so beautiful to think of the way that our children, the way that the youth in our lives, and see what we're doing now can pick up on all of that they are integrating that into what is normal for them what they want to stay are going to know to seek out find that to create it is not there for them. And for the others in their life like they are we are still preparing that next generation next generation a different way of being of being with each other. 

Pansay, Doula  38:33  
Absolutely, absolutely. And for the you know, the duels to come with the birth world trainings. For years, I have done the closing ceremony and have to talk about sacred space and that type of thing. So I'm so excited to be the teacher this go around. So I can just we all have this community building and community centering and how to care for you know, the pregnant woman, postpartum woman, just to lead it into the doula training, teaching them the importance about own healing about trauma and experiences so that we're not carrying that into our clients spaces. Oh, yeah. Right. That's very important as a birth workbook that should not judgmental of how they are doing things or things that they had in their life choices, or experiences that you are their safe space. And that's very important for all of that you all are their safe space.

Maggie, RNC-OB  39:27  
Yeah, and that doesn't mean that means that you need to Yeah, we need to do that work in ourselves and have our own community then that helps us that holds us accountable that does that processing with us, so that we're not bringing our stuff into that next person's birth that is not ours. And that inevitably, we will have that bleed through if we're not taking that time. Yes, somebody to do that. To find that space for ourselves. None of us can do this on our own. Yes. Oh, well, thank you. I am so excited for those lucky doulas who are going to be training with you in this time. Next one with a birth Well, if you can just remind everyone where they can find you on the internet how they can connect with you. Yes.

Pansay, Doula  40:05  
Instagram sacred butterfly births and also the sacred pause red room and Facebook is the same thing. Yeah. Sacred butterfly births and the Sacred Pause Red Room.

Maggie, RNC-OB  40:14  
Yes. Well, thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom with us Pansay. I am so grateful

Pansay, Doula  40:19  
for you. Thank you. Thank you hope I answered all those questions

Maggie, RNC-OB  40:23  
at the beginning. So all of these conversations for 10 more.

Pansay, Doula  40:27  
Yes, yes. Thank you. Thank you for the beautiful community you have created. Yes, original vision. Yes, I'm so excited all the work that you are doing for everyone. So everyone is going magnificent.

Maggie, RNC-OB  40:45  
Well, I hope you appreciate these tips from Pansay as much as I did, as we all think about how we can create more open communities where folks can feel free to be themselves to be vulnerable to grow together, and we would love to grow alongside of you. Feel free to find us across social media at your birth partners. And in particular, we would love for you to share tidbits from this episode that you enjoyed and your stories on Instagram. Till next time