Finding Your Place in Community #073

As we are examining community throughout the season, thinking more deeply about what it means to be joining into this community of birth.

How does it feel to be coming into something that is in some ways already established, but also something that is constantly growing and changing?

I am very excited to have one of our original listeners to the podcast who has been with us through our whole journey.  Erin Heacock is a passionate birth advocate who recently started as a nurse in the perinatal space.  She will be sharing reflections on what she has learned and how she wants to grow in this space. 

We are inviting all of you to think about how we all have things to learn and how often we end up putting people up on pedestals.
How do you decide who is the authority?
How do we become more open to new ideas?
How do we appreciate and support those who are coming after us?

Join us as we explore:
~Appreciating our role and the vulnerable spaces we are invited into
~Challenging unit norms and "the way we've always done things"
~Comparing physiologic birth with the reality of typical hospital birthcare
~Learning how to question authority and bring in diverse viewpoints
~The power of fresh perspective and creating welcoming communities
~The pursuit of lifelong learning
~Ensuring the folks we care for are centered in our community building

Learn more about Erin and connect more.

Transcript

Maggie, RNC-OB  0:03  
Welcome to your birth partners, the podcast identifying gaps, acknowledging biases, and co-creating a trauma informed standard of birth care with change agents across the spectrum of birth work. I'm your host, Maggie Runyon. I'm a birth nurse, educator and advocate who has been searching since 2010. The answers to how to provide better care during pregnancy, birth and postpartum. Through my own pregnancies and supporting births in home and hospitals around the country. I've seen firsthand many the systemic flaws that exist in perinatal care. Through these conversations, I'm thrilled to share with you insights and inspiration as we work collectively to transform birth care.

So as we are examining community throughout this season, thinking more deeply about what it means to be joining into this community of birth, how does it feel to be coming into something that is, in some ways already established, but also something that is constantly growing and changing? I am very excited to have one of our original listeners to the podcast, who has been with us through our whole journey as we grow our community. Erin Heacock is a passionate birth advocate who recently started as a nurse in the perinatal space. And so I'm really excited for her to share a little bit about what she has learned as she comes in this space. And you know, thinking about how we all have things to learn how often we end up putting people on pedestals, how do we think about who is the authority? How do we become more open to new ideas? How do we appreciate and support those who are coming after us. And I am really excited to share this conversation with you onto the show. 

Well, Erin, welcome to the podcast. I am just so excited to have you on here. And I am lucky to get to share space with you and my day job at the hospital. And so I'm really excited to have this conversation with you about kind of your journey into perinatal care and what you are looking for as you start your career. So tell us a little bit about kind of you and your work and what brings you here.

Erin, RN  2:04  
Yeah, I'm excited to my name is Erin. I'm the OG number one fan. Yes, yeah, I just graduated nursing school in May. And I just started my job in postpartum right now. And I really love it. So yeah, I just love birth.

I didn't really no, why I just do. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  2:26  
Like so you have like an agricultural background to write that kind of like informed your appreciation for birth?

Erin, RN  2:33  
Oh, yeah. So I live on a dairy farm, which is pretty much like maternity because it's, we have babies and make milk. And literally, I think that's why that's probably why I love like, people birth so much. Because it's very similar. It's like, but the cows it's like in there. Like it's a very like raw, natural that I think that's what sparked I love with

people birth. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  2:59  
Yeah. So you've been involved in kind of like birth space before, but what is it going to look like for you now as you are kind of officially, you know, joining from an employment perspective as a perinatal nurse.

Erin, RN  3:14  
I don't know, I think before I was kind of just like, watching from like, as tech, I like watching from the background and being able to like see things and like take things in. But now I have more of a role. So I feel like you can make a little bit more of a difference. So it's good. I can take all the things that I've like, kept in the back of my head for the last couple years and like, use them in my practice as a new nurse. So that's

Maggie, RNC-OB  3:44  
good. Yeah. So you've been you've started for a couple of months now what have been kind of like high notes and low notes of your experience so far? 

Erin, RN  3:54  
Well, I really love it.

It's been mostly really great, especially in postpartum, I haven't done labor and delivery yet. So I'm in postpartum right now. But I really have loved like, being able to, like, give a lot of education and like it postpartum is very, like, vulnerable. Everybody's tired, and everything's new. So I really liked that part of it being like, the person that gives lots of education and support, but I guess like through orientation, I just saw a lot of things that I heard about in birth kind of like the problems, just people saying like that. We do things this way, just like because it's

easier for us. I think through my orientation. We talked a lot about like the protocols and like the rules and like rules are good and everything but I think just like having the mindset I already have like seeing how a lot of the things we do I think aren't necessarily, like what's suits the patient? It's like, about, like our liability to cover our butts or, like, convenience for us. So that's something that I've definitely been seeing more of as a new nurse than I had been as a patient care tech.

Maggie, RNC-OB  5:21  
Oh, yeah, I feel like that piece that like, complication, I think we've talked a lot about kind of that transition from maybe what the vision of what like what nursing means, what it means to be involved in birth care, what it means to support folks as they welcome their babies. And then like the nitty gritty of what that looks like, especially in like a typical hospital environment, and us often those are not a great match. And that's like, one of the reasons I was so excited to have you come on, as a longtime listener of the podcast, who has really been, you know, we've had so many great conversations offline, about what this looks like, and how, how do we take all of these things we know about like, what birth can be, what support can look like? What care can can really do for folks and marry that with? Like, what, what it actually looks like what actually ends up doing? So I would love to hear a little bit about like, kind of your, as you find yourself stepping into this, this space? Where do you kind of find yourself leaning and searching for like community as you do this work?

Erin, RN  6:31  
In my work, like, in the workplace, there's a lot of great people who I feel like, they have the same mindset as me, they are willing to learn and change and like the practice that they've maybe had, when they first started doesn't necessarily mean that it's how they have to practice now. Yeah, so actually, it's good. I feel like it's helpful to talk to other new, newer nurses, as well as experienced nurses, like just kind of have like a mix in your community, because everybody has their own bias. And so it's good to have a little bit of all experience types and like different backgrounds. So I don't know, I found, I like to look on the Facebook pages, but I don't really have much of a community yet. Yeah,

Maggie, RNC-OB  7:19  
That's how we all start. Right. You know, like, I think it's cool to be able to, I think what's nice about where you're at, in your journey, there is this piece of everything being fresh, and like you have this not that any of us are ever again, like striving for perfection. It's not that but I I have a nostalgia piece of looking to like where you are at in your career and thinking back to like, how I felt when I was where you are, that there's just this piece of just the I don't know, everything is like, is new. I feel like there's like a hopefulness to how you can approach things that just sometimes, as we you know, as we continue along, like sure we learn different things. But, you know, we also sometimes get jaded working within, you know, within this system. And so I just I think sometimes we can be appreciative of the energy that newer colleagues bring.

And I am just out here shouting out. So to all the folks who are like a new in birth care whether you are new nurses, you are new doulas you are, you know, the med students, the residents who come on board, like, I think there is just tremendous power in recognizing like, the fresh perspective and what that brings, and the possibility that is there. So for those of us who are sitting there telling you like, well, this is kind of how we've always done it, that like you could be like, but why? And it's just something different. I think for once you've been in, you know, you, you get in healthcare for a while, you just get kind of rote about a lot of stuff, it's easy to kind of just be like, yep, that is how I always do it just one shift after another. And so I think it's awesome that you have the chance to kind of come in and ask and talking through what you're seeing to understand, like, why we do some things, and I think it gives us you know, old battle axes a chance to like, pause and think, Oh, why, Oh, why am I doing it that way? Like, what is the purpose of that? And so that kind of leads me to if you want to share a little bit how your mom set you up to think about how you learn and like navigate new spaces.

Erin, RN  9:20  
Yes. So she wrote my graduation book. And she's always been this way, like, my whole life. I feel like she's been this way. But she wrote to question authority, but listen to what they have to say. And I feel like that's really been in the back of my mind since working in healthcare, healthcare in general even because that's kind of what if I think if you want to be a good advocate and provide good care for your patient, and that's what you have to do. I think as the advocate and the patient, you both kind of have to be questioning authority but listening to them. We have an insight joke, we call it the rage, but it's like the passion, sometimes cloud your vision and you're like, you have so much passion and you don't want to listen to, like anything and everything's bad. Everything the doctor says is bad, which is not true. But sometimes the passion get in the way. Yeah. So I think it's like a good way to think of things like, just because someone seems that they have authority over you, which they don't really. But you should be asking questions. And for example, provider recommends something, and the nurse or patient has something to say about it, or that's not what they want. It's not always what people do, they don't always bring something up, ask questions, and, you know, tell them what they think about that. So, I like that. And always, and like, keeping that in my practice, like, not in a disrespectful way. But just like, advocating for my patient, I hope that I never become complacent. Just listen to whoever, just because that's what they say. I've seen it already. And through orientation, like people will tell patients like, that's just what we do here. Take it or leave it. I like to tell my patients, you can refuse anything you want to refuse. Like, because they a lot of times they they say to you, do I have to have that? No, you don't have to have anything you don't want to have. So I feel like it's sometimes, especially as a new grad, you're like, kind of walking like a thin line of like, because you're so new. And we have a lot to learn. You don't know much. We don't have a lot of experience. But I think that the learning like experience doesn't necessarily like equate to knowledge. Yeah, those things like together are super helpful. But I also think that experience can just like add to your bias in like a productive way. You know what I mean? You can just get stuck in that, like, that's how we've always done it or how one birth goes. That's how they all should go. And that's the ideal thing. Because you've done it, you can tell the person I've done this for 40 years. Well, good for you. But that doesn't take anything away from what you're not. I mean,

Maggie, RNC-OB  12:17  
I do i Absolutely. Yeah, I totally agree. I think that's one of the things when we were kind of thinking about the season of the podcast, wanting to kind of center it on community, because of the power that comes when we all have that chance to like, reflect together when someone is there holding you accountable to your biases, which again, we've talked about at length, but we all have them. It's okay. It is normal, it is part of the human experience. But it's also something that we need to address, we need to reflect on them, we need to be aware of those biases, so we can catch ourselves and recognize when they are interfering with us looking at that person who is in front of us. And to your point, absolutely, like experience is a double edged sword, right? Like we get to see all of these things that have happened. But that also means that we bring a piece of each of those experiences into that birth, that we're you know, attending right then or into that postpartum experience. And that is for good. And for bad. We learn a lot along the way. But we also pick up a lot of our own, frankly, just our own trauma, our own stuff that if we don't address it makes us I think it makes us rely on those kind of pat responses, like you said, like, well, do I have to do this? And the answer is no. But what feels a little easier in the moment is to say, Yeah, yep, that's pretty much how we do it. Because it is, it feels easier, or safer to like, stick to that, instead of taking the time to, okay, I can let go of some of the things that I've seen happen before I can trust that this person has autonomy over their body over their experience. I think we hold on to a lot of that other that other stuff that we pick up on and that's why again, we talk all the time about like therapy for everyone, like everyone should be able to weather it. That's you know, there are a lot of different ways you that whether you're journaling through this stuff, you're talking to stuff like there is a lot of power in reflecting on those experiences, and understanding how they're gonna play into the next. Absolutely. I totally understand that. I wonder too, then like so how do you feel like it's working for you within like, we know there is a hierarchy within you know, within medicine within birth care. How do you feel like you're kind of stepping into that advocate role as a newer nurse

Erin, RN  14:42  
so far, like, I'm super new. So I say only started in July of

the conversation with at least one of my patients every shift like about the whole "it's your body, you have the right to Reviews everything, anything' like, last night, I had a simple like, do I need to have this IV? And I just said, No, you don't need to have anything, you know, the pain meds are going through the IV right now. Like, it may be beneficial. The you know, you have to have that conversation to like, why it's good, why it's not good. How are you feeling? You know, but I've had that conversation like probably every shift about something. Yeah. So I think at this moment in time, that's kind of how I've been trying to be a good advocate. It's just like making sure that my patients know that they're the boss, and they're in control, and, like, I'm here for their support, and then I'm gonna do my job, the best that I can but get anytime they're the boss, they can tell me what to do. And maybe like some day, I mean, I haven't really had an opportunity to like question a provider. And I don't do that at this time. I'm such a baby nurse, and I would be in trouble. But But I think, like I could see, like down the year is like, when I learned more, and just, I don't know, I want to be the best advocate for my patients. So I guess, however, that needs to look, then that's how it'll be.

Maggie, RNC-OB  16:23  
Yeah. Oh, I love it. Yeah, I think like that, like you said, it's those those basics, like the informed choice for everything like the you know, I think we we have internalized that, like informed consent is this process. And I know, Dr. Stephanie Tillman has talked about it, you know, she does a lot of work around consent, and how we understand kind of that dynamic that we set up. And she talks a lot about, like language shifts, and she said, you know, we talk about like getting consent, right, as if it's this goal, we have to get from point A, which is we don't have it, and we have to get consent in order to like, move on with everything else, rather than like, Did you receive consent for this? Because a, you know, when we present options to folks, a yes, response is equally as valid as a no response. Right. And informed refusal and informed deferment, like those are also completely fine, because we are offering them a choice. We, I think often get kind of confused about that, because we have a sense of what we want the answer to be. Right. But like you said, just walking it through that like, No, you don't have to have it. This is why on the pro side, on the con side, this is what we're weighing. What do you want to do? And absolutely, I think that is our role as, as advocates is just to present that, you know, so much of it is just like that education information, making sure folks are aware of the factors that we're considering. Yeah. Yeah. And I also think, like, to your point, you know, I think absolutely it is, gosh, it is scary, when we are having moments of like conflict with other people who are on our team, right. So when we are concerned when we have to question the, you know, the plan of care someone wants, we have to question order like that. I don't know if that always feels a little bit like, Ooh, you have that like feeling in your stomach like, oh, okay, there's like, makes me feel uncomfortable. Because I think we, you know, we want to be collaborating, we want to be working together. And it's hard to like, step into that. But I think you already have like, such an amazing, you know, foundation. And I think speaking to, you know, other folks in our audience, we've talked about this before, where folks feel unsure about, like, how to have that, how to have that conversation, how to have that, like the uncomfortable moments of like, Oh, can we pause, but I think even just like that kind of a simple phrase is like the best, like, the best thing to just be like, Oh, can we take a moment to talk about this slow that pace down, because we treat so many things in obstetrics and perineal care as like, it's all an emergency, everything has to happen just like this, we prep ourselves to be like that, when just the vast majority things are not an emergency. Right? We are always ready for an emergency if it happens, but because of that, we're like tuned up, we're operating at a really like high vibration that makes us feel like everything else has to happen that way. So pausing realizing that like most things do not have to happen immediately. And then it'll be able to I think TeamSTEPPS really talked about those I'm concerned, I'm uncomfortable. This is a safety issue. Like those CUS cuss words. I always refer back to those. I learned that like very out of my nursing career because I think that's what like gets it across and helps it to be very like, again, it's not like confrontational. This is you advocating like, hey, and it can be like I'm concerned or can be like, hey, the patient, this person right here, they look uncomfortable. Can we take a moment to discuss this? You can always put it back on that. I feel like there's a piece of keeping it really just really like simple. Sometimes it helps folks to like reorient themselves a

Erin, RN  19:53  
little bit. Yeah. Well, I'm

Maggie, RNC-OB  19:55  
also wondering too, as you're walking along, you're starting to see how things have Then what sources are you going to, for information, if you're on orientation, you hearing something because again, we all have different ways of practicing. I'm sure you've had several preceptors. And they all do things a little bit differently. Everyone has their way, what are like resources that you're looking at to understand, maybe more beyond just what you're hearing on the unit?

Erin, RN  20:20  
Well, I'm a podcast junkie.

I think some of the things that I like to learn from that aren't, like, necessarily what the hospital education would teach are, like certain podcasts, or awesome Instagram accounts, or those types of things that like, unconventional, like, I don't know, just the education that the hospital will not teach. But then also, we have a really great educator, so it's nice to be able to go to her with questions, even if it's like, questioning what the hospital does, because a lot of times, you know, they agree. Yeah, that's really nice, but I just like to learn wherever I can really just Yeah,

yeah, definitely not Healthstream

Maggie, RNC-OB  21:10  
I know Healthstream leaves some things to be desired. We will like throw out what are some of your like, obviously, besides ourselves? What are some other like favorite podcast Instagram accounts? Because I think sometimes we do we kind of like dismiss, you know, the value of like, online resources like again, they don't seem as quote unquote, like professional or whatnot. But as we're talking about, like growing our community, our community isn't always a regional like a local piece of it. There is a power to harness in social media. So I'd love to hear some of your favorites.

Erin, RN  21:39  
Yeah, so some of my other favorite podcasts wildly group evidence based birth, Rebecca Decker, joy, love. Those podcasts are awesome. And I feel like they're really sound guy don't have to really question what she's saying. Like I can trust that that information is good. And then some other ones I like that like, sometimes I like to take with a grain of salt are the midwife and the OB it's Marin green and Nathan Riley. Holistic OB Yeah, he used to have his own podcast, but it's changed. It used to be the OB Gyno Wino. Yeah. I really loved Like, those are a little bit different than like evidence based birth and your podcast, they talk about things a little bit differently. But I really enjoy listening to those and taking pieces from that. What else I love, like Instagram accounts. Oh, and Natalie Crawford, MD I like her podcast to her is less about birth, and more about like, pregnancy and those types of things. But she always touches on like obstetrics in the news. So like, in the beginning, she'll talk about like, you know, whatever's going on in the world, which I appreciate that. Yeah, I follow like a million amazing Instagram accounts. My Instagram feed is literally like babies being born it can. Or like seeing behind me, you're like, what's going on? We don't know that. What's happening, but, yeah.

Maggie, RNC-OB  23:04  
Oh, that's great. And then so as you kind of keep, like, what do you kind of see for, for your path, as you kind of keep, like walking through

Erin, RN  23:12  
this? I don't know. I hope to just keep, like learning, I don't want to ever stop learning. I think that's something that like, not people make the mistake of, but like, that sometimes can be what happens is you just like you were saying, like, you kind of just get like, closed off and like, you know, tired. And I hope I don't get like that. I mean, I know that thing that could change. I really love, like birth and helping these people after they have their babies and everything. So I don't know, I just hope to keep learning and taking from every experience, but also not letting that, like, build my bias. And my trouble is something I like knowing right away, I hope I can be able to work on before it happens, then like having to because I know like that's something that's hard to change, like 20 years plus into your nursing job, I hopefully I can take these things that I know now just a little bit and make sure that it doesn't happen, or at least try because I want to keep an open mind as best as I can. And I just want to provide really good care. So

Maggie, RNC-OB  24:29  
yeah, well, I love that. And I think that I mean that like that's like well that all of us so far, right? Like just I think that awareness piece is huge to it. And like you said I think that like it is you have an advantage like that you are already aware of it. I think so many of us are we don't realize that going into it. We don't realize how easily this can like burn us out. We don't think about like self care, and what that needs to look like. And you know, we're not we're just not we're not cognizant. I don't know But we're always cognizant of, if we want to stay in this work for a lifetime, that it's going to, like, it's going to change, it's going to grow that, like we need to be protective of that drive today, you know, like that. It's not just something that, I don't know, it's not just like, that's gonna stay around forever. Yeah.

Erin, RN  25:21  
healthcare in general to like, it's always changing. I feel like when you sign up for it, and you want to be it, like working in healthcare, you kinda have to know that. It's always changing. And we're always learning something new. And that's like the beauty of it. So to not want to change and evolve and grow with it. I don't know, I feel like it's been you shouldn't be

doing that job. I, I mean, that's how I think,

Maggie, RNC-OB  25:47  
yeah, oh, my gosh, yeah. Because otherwise we do. And we, like, we all know, those folks. Right? They're kind of like stuck in the mud. They seem like they're not, I don't know, they're not aware of what is the saying, you know, like, change is the only constant right? You know, like, we know that that is like just a piece of it. And I also think that there's that piece of our, our ownership of it like so if this system were part of is going to change? Are we powering that change? Or how are we you know, how are we like a part of that? are we supporting it to change in a way that is what we want to be a part of? Or are we kind of letting it happen to us, you know, and just kind of rolling along and getting lost in the shuffle. And that absolute is an ownership piece that we that we have and that I am confident you are going to keep doing as you keep growing within it. And then just kind of like to wrap up this? We Is there anything else you want to share with us? About like where you're at in this journey about what community means to you? 

Erin, RN  26:40  
What does community mean to me?

I don't know. I think it's just birth, like, Of all the places in healthcare, like when I went to nursing school, and I decided what I wanted to kind of do first seems to have a very unique following. But I didn't really know about until more recently, here's, I don't know if they'd have this. I don't know if they have like such a community for like, the neuro ICU or whatever. But like birth in general, this has like this really awesome following.

I don't know what's if it's just because there's lots of ways and places and to how to have baby. Yeah, yeah. Like, and it's this normal thing. So I don't know, I really liked that part of it. So yeah, there's like a really great community. And I think it's just one of the I think I love so much about is that there's so much like, normalcy in it and like culture. And I don't know, we try to make it so clinical. Normal. Yeah,

Maggie, RNC-OB  27:47  
absolutely.

Erin, RN  27:48  
Sorry. It's normal. And I know that's why like it is the cows do it do

things like most of the time works itself out. And some of the time we have to help. But yeah,

Maggie, RNC-OB  28:03  
I obviously agree with you, I think, like you were saying, I think there is a process by it's a human experience is a universal experience. Right, like you said, like that is different than many other areas of medicine nursing that get very, like specialized and are dealing with like, a more unique or like a specialized population. You know, I think we have birth absolutely like it. We are there to like, provide support and guidance and education. And, you know, as we talked at length as we continue to think about, like, what that looks like,

how we support folks autonomy,

how we show up in like community with folks who are out there and with non clinical birth workers, as you know, as we create this new vision of what can what can birth care look like? What can birth look like? In our country, we have so many folks, three to 4 million people have a baby each year. That's a ton of us out here going through this experience. So like, what do we want it to look like? And that's like, the last question I have for you. What is your what is your vision that you you know, imagine for what, like community birth care could be for the future

for, you know, generations to come? 

Erin, RN  29:21  
I hope it's more accessible. I like when people can have an option of where they want to have their baby how they want to have their baby. So I hope that it becomes more accessible, like not just a hospital home course or I don't know, I mean, I just know about art like this area. So just maybe in this community, can I start with that? Yeah, this community I feel like it would be really cool to have more options, birth centers and more midwives, midwives that support birth, how it's happening and not only trying and change it to Yeah, I feel like the only option in this community is hospital birth or few homebirth. But I hope someday that birth can go back to being looked at as like a normal physiological process and not something that we need to necessarily always augment or change, or I hope it can just be more left alone and happen, how it's going to happen. Because when we try and change it, those changes lead to other things and like, just, it's like cause and effect type of thing. So, yeah, huh?

Maggie, RNC-OB  30:44  
Yes, well, obviously, I share that vision for just for more accessibility for more options for, for us to shift how we look at birth, which I do think happens. I think that happens for those of us who are involved in birth care directly, but I also agree, it's like a cultural thing that, you know, it's happening way outside, it's how we view it with our families. It's how we talk about it with our kids. It's how we want to show up in community for folks, once they have their babies. It's about kind of unraveling, like you said some of that but like over medicalization piece of it, that takes it away from from really being that like human experience. And it makes it this like medical condition, inhibits the way that we show up in community. So they share

Erin, RN  31:28  
that with you. I've heard a lot as tech. And now as a nurse, if something's different, get the hospital. Like if there's a patient that's like, doing something differently than the person taking care of them. I do. Sometimes they say like, Oh, it's just cultural. But I read this Instagram post the other day, and I was talking to a friend about it. First of all, that's not really cool to say about somebody's something, whatever they're doing, and a lot of things that are like, cultural around, like births. Like I feel like here, we're on this, the ones doing it wrong. Yeah, like some cultures move at a slower pace and let the person that had the baby just like chill and hang out for a really long time. And we get out of bed, go back to work. There's a lot of things that are way more beautiful than what we do here said that it has to have like a negative connotation.

When it's not at all. Yeah, it's something else. I think I've noticed since like, being new.

Maggie, RNC-OB  32:34  
Oh, my gosh, yeah, I think there is a huge piece of us, like, what we have decided, is important enough, right? Like what we are counting as, like valid and, you know, gosh, like I think, you know, when we think about community, like it's us together as like birth workers as people who are involved in the care of birth, but it also means giving equal validity to the people who are having the babies to all of their diverse cultural needs, you know, like, rather than, like you said, kind of dismissing it as like a, someone's culture is not like extra. It's not like this, take it or leave it. It is a part of them, it informs the way they move through the world. And so obviously, it's gonna find the way they want to receive care the way they think about what birth and like, Baby raising means. Like, there's a piece of us just being dismissive of anything that feels like inside of US culture, which is like worth is like highly medicalized and individualized and quick. Right bouncebacks halfback culture here.

Erin, RN  33:43  
Exactly. Yeah. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  33:45  
Well, Erin,

thank you so much for coming on and talking about where you're at on your journey and sharing a little bit about your perspective. I really appreciate it.

Erin, RN  33:54  
Thank you. Sorry. Oh, it's particularly my work cuz I'm sleepy.

Maggie, RNC-OB  33:59  
You are perfect. We are well aware of the complicated time scheduling within birth care. So we appreciate you showing up post nightshift and everything. 

Erin, RN  34:11  
Thank you. 

Maggie, RNC-OB  34:15  
Well, I so appreciated hearing Erin and her thoughts. As you know, we consider what community can look like as we move forward as we learn and grow together. We would love to learn grow with you. So please connect with us across social media at your birth partners. And if dealer we would love for you to share a snippet of this conversation that resonated with you on your Instagram stories, so we can connect there. Till next time