Accountability: Supporting the Black Trans Community #076

In this episode, we are sharing with you a conversation with Kayden Coleman.

Many of you may already know Kayden through his incredible advocacy and storytelling about his experiences as a transgender dad, a seahorse dad who gave birth to two daughters.

Through this podcast he shares why he was called to be vocal about his experiences as a Black transgender dad and the prevalence of anti-Blackness in society.  He brings education and insights into how we can improve birthcare, healthcare, and our human to human interactions to be more inclusive and equitable for trans folks, with greater awareness of intersecting identities.

Tune in for insights on:
~Creating a community
~Educating folks who have an intent to misunderstand
~Accountability: calling in and calling out
~Anti-Blackness & the trans community
~Raising our awareness around social media dynamics
~Steps to take for equitable care

Connect more with Kayden and his work here and don't miss his latest offerings mentioned on the podcast!

Transcript

Maggie, RNC-OB  0:03  
Welcome to your birth partners, the podcast identifying gaps, acknowledging biases, and co-creating a trauma informed standard of birth care with change agents across the spectrum of birth work. I'm your host Maggie Runyon. I'm a birth nurse, educator and advocate who has been searching since 2010. The answers to how to provide better care during pregnancy, birth and postpartum. Through my own pregnancies and supporting births in home and hospitals around the country. I've seen firsthand many the systemic flaws that exist in perinatal care. Through these conversations, I'm thrilled to share with you insights and inspiration as we work collectively to transform birth care.

In this episode, the podcast I am thrilled to be sharing with you a conversation with Kayden Coleman. Many of you may already know Kayden, through his incredible advocacy and storytelling, about his experiences as a transgender dad, a seahorse dad who gave birth to two daughters. And he shares a lot of education and insight into how we can improve birth care, health care, and our human to human interactions to be more inclusive and equitable for folks of trans experience. And in particular, how that intersects with those who are Black. This conversation is for those of you who want to learn a little bit more about Kayden and his journey, how he has created a community, his thoughts on how we can call in or call out folks to create accountability for ourselves around our biases. And he's sharing a lot of insight into anti blackness, its presence within the transgender community, the way it shows up in our social media interactions, and steps that we all can take, whether we are in clinical or non clinical spaces, to be aware of this in our practices. Onto the show. 

Well, Kayden Welcome to the show, it is such a delight to be sharing space with you here. And I am really excited for you to share with our audience a little bit more of your journey and how you have created so much community. And so yeah, if you want to just kind of start off by letting folks know kind of how you how you find yourself in the kind of pregnancy birth care space as an advocate.

Kayden, Advocate  2:21  
Yeah, so my name is Kayden Coleman. I am a trans dad, transgender dad, I have two daughters that I gave birth to. And you know, when I first gave birth, my first daughter, my eight year old, geez, I was gonna keep it quiet. That's kind of like what we're told to do. Because if you're quote, unquote, trying to be a man, why would you get pregnant kind of thing. But then I thought to myself, I didn't want to keep it quiet. And it wasn't for like accolades or to become popular, it was just more or less, I thought about how I felt and how like lonely that journey felt for me. And I was like, you know, it would be nice for people to see some representation, especially of a Black, trans masculine person giving birth, and publicly so and so, you know, I did that. And then with my second pregnancy, obviously, I was a lot more open about that. And what actually propelled me into this work was, you know, me being berated by Angela Stanton, who was running for some office political office in Georgia at the time. And I thought to myself, it's crazy, because I'm not the only pregnant trans masculine person, but I was the only openly Black, trans masculine person. And it really got me to thinking about just how the world views us all as trans people to begin with. And I felt like if people saw more diversity in that space and the reproductive space, but also got some more education as to what it looks like to be trans, and that there's no roadmap and what it is that and and can't do, you know, because they think that there's like this strict guideline that we have to adhere to, and kind of showing some different forms of representation would help. Not only you know, some of the more ignorant people, but also just help people who are undereducated, specifically in medical spaces, so that we can just face less trauma. I know it's gonna be difficult to alleviate all of the trauma, but less is better than, you know what we've been dealing with for all this time.

Maggie, RNC-OB  4:39  
Yes, what a powerful journey. So a couple of threads to pull on there. I guess one, and I know you've spoken very vocally about this, and I've seen a lot of your content around and all like on Instagram and everything but that anti Blackness piece that shows up when we talk particularly about transgender reproductive care. Can you explain a little bit more context for folks who maybe are not familiar with that?

Kayden, Advocate  5:01  
Yeah. So you know, I talk a lot about anti Blackness, because it's not a way to scold or reprimand white people, right? Because anti Blackness is not inherently just a white person, thing. We all have anti Blackness ingrained in us. And, you know, when people think of trans people, they don't normally think of the intersecting identities that go along with it, right, they just kind of put it all together, for lack of better words. And my experience as a Black person is very, vastly different than that of a white person, or even a person of color. Right? We hear about, especially in reproductive spaces, the disparities that Black women face. So imagine that, and at the intersection of being trans. On top of that, you know, there's a lot of spaces where we're not listened to, we're not taken seriously, or it's thought that we can, you know, take pain a lot higher, especially if we're quote unquote, trying to be men. Yeah, so and then we also have to face the biases that, especially if we're sis passing, right, or assumed that Black men face that initial fear, that initial, you know, intimidation that a lot of people feel, or they, you know, automatically come off as aggressive when advocating for ourselves and things of that nature. So it's kind of like a double edged sword. And it's also really important to understand that white supremacy plays a lot of a role in anti Blackness. And a lot of the times when I speak about that stuff, for example, when I spoke at AWHONN recently, not a lot of the feedback, but there was feedback. I did receive the feedback back and a lot of people, as soon as I mentioned white supremacy, or anti Blackness, they were like, it feels like he was just so angry. And I felt like I was being blamed as a white woman. And I was like, Oh, okay. And I think that a lot of people need to understand that anti Blackness isn't a character trait. It's just something that it's everywhere. It's in the media, it's in everything we look at. It's what we are brought up with thinking that, you know, white features and whiteness is inherently better than Blackness. It's just what we are taught. And me bringing it up. It's not again, it's not scolding, it's not reprimanding. It's just saying, Hey, this is the thing. And this cannot not be a thing without you first acknowledging it and wanting to unlearn it.

Maggie, RNC-OB  7:31  
Yeah. Oh, yeah, I know, we've talked about it several times throughout the podcast about really just that importance of like acknowledging these biases, acknowledging these structural pieces that are in play with white supremacy, with the anti Blackness with all of these pieces that come up that many people have allowed themselves to be unaware of. And that that is fine as so much as it has happened. But it is not okay. It's not enough to hide behind this idea that like, Oh, I just didn't. I didn't realize I think particularly and I obviously I'm saying this as a as a white woman who was sat there and watched you presented AWHONN and it was so powerful. But looking around the room, we are a very like, quote unquote, well meaning white women dominated profession. And it is so crucial necessary for us to really dive deep into understanding like, Where'd that come from? Whether you want to call it that white brittleness, white fragility, whatever you want to say that you receive back in that feedback. That is a personal issue folks have to address within themselves, and not something that should be coming back to you as feedback. And I think that's something we continue to, we continue to need to dive deeper into that as an accountability that we have as nurses to kind of call on our own there. And then, you know, one or two as you have you built this community, and I am constantly just like, I love the content, you share, you have seen the many ways that you can open book on social media about kind of sharing that and speaking to that piece of your experience that is there. Like you said, there's not a one size fits all, I'm trans. So that means that this is what it's supposed to look like. Can you speak a little bit maybe more to that? And kind of elaborate on that? And what have you seen as you kind of as you created this community space, where you then have the chance to interact with folks who are coming from all different experiences? What have you seen maybe, particularly for those of us who are in reproductive care in birth care, where the more awareness we can have around the kind of that piece of it?

Unknown Speaker  9:29  
So I've seen kind of a mixture of things. One of the biggest narratives that I've seen is people entering into my space, for example, thinking with the intention to misunderstand right to disagree. One of the other feedbacks that I often get from my talks or my trainings is, you know, I walked in here prepared to disagree, and then I walked out really understanding. Right [Maggie-ooh] it's is my goal. It's my absolute goal is the that's my favorite, favorite form of feedback ever. Because I think a lot of people, that translates, right, so it translates from going into this training or this speech, but it also translate into him walking into this exam room, I'm meeting this client, you meet these people, whether consciously or subconsciously expecting to disagree or misunderstand them, or whatever the case may be expecting to push back, right. And my you know, the My biggest goal is to help people unlearn that and stop feeling that way. Also, I've gotten a lot of people that just were not aware of transness at all, or aware of the fact that trans people can look so different. And trans identities can be so different. And expecting a lot of people like I mentioned earlier, a lot of people are when they hear about trans masculine people or trans men, they expect them all to look like me. Right? And you know, what I mean by that is, they expect all of us to be cis-assumed, right? Or to aspire to look like we are cisgender men, I look like this just because of genetics. It's not because this is my aspiration. It's just how I look. A lot of people have no desire to be cis-assumed, I always say being cis-assumed or cis-passing is not the goal. It's not like this achievement, that we're all trying to unlock some people Yes, but some people know, so many different identities exists with it as far as gender identity, sexuality, religion, you know, just the way that they live their lives, just like everyone else. And I think that blows a lot of people's mind. Because, again, they think trans people, and they just want to clump us all into this one group. And they expect us to all be hyper masculine, and can't understand why we would even want to have kids, because isn't that against the rules? Or is that? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? as well? And it's like, no, if you have this ability to do this thing, why not? There's no rulebook when it comes to transness. And I think that's one of the other biggest kind of patterns that I see is that people already have this idea of like, this linear path for trans people. And then if we stray off of that path of what they think we're supposed to be, there's this confusion. And that gets a lot of pushback. And I, you know, me being gay and Black, and you know, a seahorse dad, and, you know, although my look is more on the quote, unquote, masculine side, you know, I get my nails done, and I dye my beard, and I do these things, it makes people's mind be like, what, and so that on top of the educating just kind of helps people in the reproductive space, be prepared to see different types of identities and stuff like that. And I honestly love that.

Kayden, Advocate  9:29  
Yeah, that's so cool. And I do think it's interesting, as you're saying that I'm thinking just how so many cis-people continue to perpetuate that being cis is like this standard, right? This achievement. So if someone is trans, it's because they want their gender expression to match with this other, like, cis standard. And I think that's what you know, when we've talked with folks before on the podcast, especially about like, non binary identities, that just really blow people's minds, because it's so hard for folks to get out of that. This very binary way of being and I think, you know, especially for those of us who we are involved in this such an intimate part of folks life, you know, within birth care and pregnancy and postpartum at any any part of healthcare. Really just taking the time to kind of examine those thought processes, like what have we learned assumed, integrated about gender? What that means that people are supposed to look and act like and mostly in that process, hopefully realizing that, like, it's all it's all made up. All of it. It's gender is a construct, right? It is changed, he continues to change. Right? You know, and so I think if we were able to let go of some of those preconceived notions, and obviously we see especially in birth care, yeah, because we have created created a narrative about what a good parent looks like what a good mom looks like, what a good pregnant person is supposed to do. And that hurts so many folks, it hurts. Obviously, it hurts trans people coming it hurts non binary people coming in, it also hurts anyone who comes in with a different family structure than we said or like you said, a different religion, a different way of connecting with their child, different mental health different, like all of those different things. I think we'd be really conscious of, yes, releasing that and your, your education and all of the way you speak to that is like it's so powerful for doing that. I wonder if you can kind of reflect it because I know there was, you know, several years between the birth of your two daughters changes you saw or trends you saw differently-positive or negative, between kind of the experiences you had the first time when you're pregnant and then the second?

this question always makes me chuckle because I wish that I could say like, you know, it was six years and, you know, all these things have changed. And, you know, my first pregnancy experience was so different than my second one. And it's not, it wasn't. And again, that's one of the things that propelled me into this work. Because for me, it was like, Why isn't anything changing? It was another situation where I spent most of my time having to advocate for myself, so much of both of my pregnancies were overshadowed by just having to deal with medical spaces. And, you know, the health issues that came from having, you know, having high blood pressure and things of that nature, having to deal with that, rather than enjoying pregnancy. And I use air quotes, just because pregnancy to me sucked, like, but maybe it wouldn't have been so bad. If I didn't also have to deal with, you know, navigating spaces, and continuously having to advocate for myself in those spaces where I was supposed to feel safety. I will say that, in the grand scheme of things, even though that did happen, where I had to advocate for myself, there were a lot more people that were willing to learn that, you know, I did come across those few gems that got it right off the bat, you know what I mean? Even if they slipped up at first, they made a conscious effort to implement that, you know, the changes in pronouns or, you know, implement the desire to want to change their verbiage, even if it was just in my space. So that was nice. But other than that, there wasn't very many changes, or very much that I could say that I was like, Wow, this was such a completely different experience, unfortunately. Yeah.

Maggie, RNC-OB  16:59  
It is unfortunate. Right? It would be it would be awesome. If you could share that we had made some big strides at the same time, obviously, not surprising, because we see at the same time that we're having so much pushback, yeah, about trans rights, about reproductive rights, like we are, in a moment in history, where we are seeing just tremendous prejudice and attempts to control and further control folks' personal lives, their reproductive lives. In the midst of all that heaviness. I've also wondered if you can kind of speak in the in the space that you have created, and especially, you know, within kind of the world of social media, you do a lot of both kind of calling in and calling out or folks, can you give maybe a little context to kind of that process, because I think part of what we talked about with, you know, throughout the season with community like absolutely is to have that sense of well being and that that shared experience. But it has to have that element of accountability, and of being able to trust the folks who you are in community with to be there to tell you when you're making a mistake, so we'd love for you to share that a little bit. 

Kayden, Advocate  18:00  
Yes.

Unknown Speaker  18:00  
So, you know, fortunately, and unfortunately, for me, I am never afraid to let somebody know when there needs to be some accountability hat, or whatever the case may be, I'm also not afraid to be a person that needs to be held accountable. And in that respect, for me, the only times I feel it necessary to call somebody out or in is if their rhetoric or whatever it is that they're conveying is harmful, or violent, or anti Black, or whatever the case may be. The reason being is because when it comes to people consuming trans education, or learning about transness, or whatever the case may be, it is so vital that the correct information is being put out there. Because a lot of the times people are not listening to learn, you're listening so they can grasp on to that one negative thing that loses fuel against the trans community. And if you are an ally, and it's important for me also to point out that when I call in or call out I have no biases, you can be trans sis black, white, purple, pink, it doesn't matter wrong as wrong. Right as right. And a lot of the times in trance education, Trans and Queer education. A lot of people put out opinion as fact. And that is that can be very, very harmful. It can be super harmful with the understanding that there aren't very many studies and, you know, articles, academic articles that we can turn to and say, Here are the numbers. That being said, a lot of us have been doing this for so long, and have actually been polling and doing our own things to where we can know or talking to medical professionals and things of that nature to where we know what's what's fact and what's not. and throwing things out there that will be harmful to an already marginalized and or oppressed group requires for somebody to be able to stand up and say, No, that's not okay. And for me doing so is, you know, we're in a space where I am an advocate and an educator. And a lot of that kind of leans on me having, you know, a lot of followers and things of that nature, I tend to lose a lot of followers. Anytime I do something like that. It's more important for me to have the right information out there than to have a plethora of followers. A lot of times we're in this space as influencers, we're expected to kind of be seen and not heard, just give out the education and let everything else just be, we're not allowed to call people out, we're not allowed to say, Hey, you're wrong in this space. I disagree. 1,000%. Because if we're not doing that, we're never going to take the step forward. It's three steps forward. 10 steps back, it's Ivan, one of my biggest mottos is to be I'd rather be proactive than reactive, we can sit back and be constantly in this space where we're doing cleanup, we fix the things that are being said in the end, you know, men that think the harm that's being done, or we can catch it and move forward from that space. I'd rather do the do the latter, because if not, we'll never make any strides ever.

Maggie, RNC-OB  21:29  
Hmm. Wow. Yeah. I think it's, it is interesting, challenging, that kind of idea, you know, shared about like influencers or, you know, see not heard, right, that you're kind of just once you get to a certain level, whatever, you're kind of up on your pedestal, you're here mountain [Kayden-exactly]. Right, how how that just creates more separation, and allows, I don't know, we allow, we allow, then these in this incorrect information, right? It becomes easy, I think, for folks to get a large platform, the misinformation, the disinformation, stuff that is allowed to just kind of like exist out there once you got into it. Because when people are afraid to call someone else out who has a large platform, right? Because you have to prepare for all of their cronies to come along and be all up in your business in ways that are both annoying and actively, like violent and harmful. Right? That's certain to

Unknown Speaker  22:28  
also for me, the anti Black perspective comes back because I automatically become the angry Black.

Maggie, RNC-OB  22:37  
Yeah

Unknown Speaker  22:38  
I mean, so for me anytime. I think a lot of people think that I find this like joy in calling people out, which sometimes I do, I'm not gonna I love a good debate. So I'm always, if I'm calling you out, it's because I have my fax line up, always know that that's, I will always have a receipt, and proof and things to backup, what I'm saying that being said, every time I do it, I have to be prepared for the consequences of me being black. And I will be speaking on this a lot. Moving forward automatically puts me in a space where it's harder for me to get followers, it's harder for me to get, you know, endorsements and brands and all of those things. Whereas for a lot of white people in my space, all they have to do is exist. And, you know, be semi attractive, they don't have that all of the education that I do, they just have to exist. And if I'm not putting out exhibit education, I lose followers, and I lose a lot of support. And then on top of that, when I call other people out, it's like, Oh, he's so angry. He's so angry, he's so angry. But if a white person does the same thing, they're rally behind. Yes, because you know, and I definitely see it from his point of view, but me it doesn't work that way. So you know, it is it's a lot of anxiety to do it, but I'm gonna do it anyway. Because, again, my goal when it comes to this vein of work is education. I'm not having any more kids, period. Like that's not happening. However, it is so important for me to see other people feel comfortable in using their bodies however they want and not have to endure, you know, even a fourth of the trauma that I did. So I got to do what I got to do.

Maggie, RNC-OB  24:20  
Hmm, thank you for calling attention to that. I think that is social media is a very tricky space, right? It's got so much potential right for, for community for education, advocacy for like connection. And then just as easily, if not more, it can really be used to just to recap it to make people feel less than to and so necessary and I obviously they're on any corner of the internet, but obviously, the one I hang out with isn't the kind of birth pregnancy space. There are frequently occurrences that need to kind of be called out that way. Need to reckon with as a larger community. And I appreciate your reminder, to be cognizant of how and who we are showing up between how those unconscious biases play into how who has these big deals, who has a bigger following who is protected automatically, because of their whiteness, who if someone is angrily calling something out, because it is okay to be angry, because when there is injustice happening, when something wrong is happening, the appropriate human response is anger. Being aware of that, and not trying to turn it into some trope, which especially gets rallied against black people, yes. And really being aware of that, like that the righteous indignation, like there is power in anger. And so we need to as as social media followers, as people who exist in these, thinking about that thinking about those dynamics, if you know, especially when we're dealing with issues like that, where white folks are allowed to hide behind that false innocence piece, where we are kind of assumed it to be innocent or unaware of something, I just, I really appreciate you sticking that out explicitly. So I think it's something that all of us, no matter what our racial, you know, ethnic identity is, but especially for those of us who are white need to be really conscious of that, and how we make shifts in the way we show up in those discussions.

Unknown Speaker  26:19  
So absolutely. And while a while in that space, I want to point out that there's going to be somebody somewhere who is feeling very negative thoughts about this conversation, because the conversations when we, when we name it, white and Black and Black people and white people, immediately when we talk about race, people start feeling heaviness and uncomfortable. And I really want to point out that none of this information is incorrect. Also, none of this information is an attack. But if you're uncomfortable in this space, right now, you might want to sit back and process whether you gotta hit pause, or however you got to do it, to sit back and process and figure out why you're feeling that way. Because, you know, oftentimes, when it's just me standing up on a stage, or if it's just me and my videos, it's automatically I feel like Kayden, you know as attacking me as this white woman or this white man or as this white person or as this non Black person. But you're also agreeing with me. [Maggie-Yes]. And there's a lot of white people that agree with me. And when we start naming it that it didn't, we didn't say of color, we didn't say POC, we said black. And that's important. Sometimes you have to start naming these things out loud and feel uncomfortable in it, and recognize that the facts are the facts. And they're out even if you only hear me talking about it, but

Maggie, RNC-OB  27:41  
it's yes. Oh, yeah, absolutely. They I do I 100% agree with what you've said. And and these are the facts. This is not opinion that that is being stated, as you kind of process the just that this is the reality of the situation. It is an uncomfortable reality. It is not okay. And so for those of us who are listening, just like I feel right now I have that pit in my stomach, because it makes you feel uncomfortable, right to confront racism to confront the systemic way that it shows up, and really being aware of that piece of it. And so yeah, absolutely. I invite folks to do whatever they need to in their body to process this, but to really take this as an invitation to dive into this, both your personal feelings and hearing and reflecting on the experiences of others that very well have been different from your own.

Unknown Speaker  28:31  
And also acknowledging that it is a privilege to only have to feel discomfort around these conversations. Because as a non Black person, the only times you're really confronted with these issues is when it's during conversations like this. Where as these issues are as Black people are things we have to deal with and confront every single day. Every single there's not a day where we don't even just sitting in our house in our bed. Scrolling on social media, anti blackness and racism are things that we have to we have to look at and deal with every day, whether it be from our pay wages, to reproductive spaces, to medical spaces to our family lives just every single solitary day. So that is super, super important to acknowledge as well. Thank you.

Maggie, RNC-OB  29:22  
Yes, and thank you for that. And to clarify, for those of us who are feeling only discomfort, because we are not confronted with this reality every day. Please know that that does not give you the right to dismiss it or to think that our discomfort as white people in any way supersedes the actual violence that happens to Black people. Absolutely. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to say that explicitly because I think that is really really key to how we move forward to how we create different different relationships different a different reality. In our country? Yes. And then, you know, kind of segueing from this, because I think you do it so powerfully, storytelling and how you draw people into community, especially when you find yourself in those spaces, like we referenced earlier, where you are speaking on these big national stages, in an environment where, you know, there are a lot of people who are coming with that feeling of, Okay, I'm ready to disagree, right? I've got I've got some facts on my own, and I'm ready to come and whatever. So how have you kind of done this? I've seen you do it really powerfully, I saw you do it at a salon. And, you know, I also saw your feedback from the Birth Center Association that you had the chance to present to so kind of how have you brought these into kind of, quote unquote, mainstream big birth care organizations?

Unknown Speaker  30:51  
Well, you know, when I decided that I was going to even do the workshops that I do, my thought process was this. We've all sat in talks where, you know, all that's talked about are the different definitions of words. And we're talking about trans this, we see the gender bread man, and you know, this is sexuality versus gender data, data data, right? And unless you're absolutely interested in that, unless you came with, I really want to know these terms. That starts feeling like you know, Charlie Brown's teacher, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, there's no feeling or emotion behind it. I started thinking about I'm a big movie watcher, I love movies, Love TV series Netflix, I paid all of their bills. what we hear. And watch, when we hear stories or watch movies. The reason why we're so into it is because some way somehow they evoke emotion horror films, we put ourselves in those shoes. And we're like, I was in this dark room, and something jumped out at me, what am I going to feel I feel the fear, and that gets our adrenaline pumping, right? Or a romantic comedies when we when we watch them, and we're laughing, and we're feeling those emotions, right? And I thought to myself, Okay, I think my story, like, funny, not funny, my story is riddled with just enough trauma, that if told correctly, it's going to put people in my shoes, and have them feel what I felt. And in some way, shape or form, hopefully, provoke them to want to make sure that this does not happen again, like a lot of the times, us learning, we're feeling having that empathy will make us be like, Oh, my God, I didn't think of it that way. Putting a human being aspect on transness is so important. And I've always been not to pat myself on the back. But I've always just been a really good storyteller. Since I was in grade school, I've just been really good at telling stories, like, you know, this is how I think we can put a face and a name and a body to the trauma that I'm trying to alleviate, you know, putting it from, because, again, like I was saying, my story as a Black trans man is going to be way different than a white trans man, even same age, same, you know, story, you know, finding ourselves as trans people, usually, nine times out of 10, the support the care the experience, just as different for a numerous amount amount of reasons. So whereas for a white person, you might see that there is a story of like triumph, and, you know, this beautiful story of IVF, or however it goes, where there's just community rally behind them already, a lot of the times for us as black people, our story is a story of alienation, and, you know, having to fight for that space. And there usually isn't that triumph at the end. And I purposely point that out, not pointed out, but I tell my story. And I don't end it with and you know, we all lived happily ever after. Like there's this hanger where you're like, Well, okay, what's next? And I'm like, here's what's next, I'm going to teach you these things. So you don't, you don't perpetuate this harm. And I think that helps draw people in and really have a passion when people leave. Even and I know for a fact, even the people who who gave that. Well, I feel like you know, Kayden was angry. Okay, you felt that way. But you felt other things, too. You felt other things too. And even if you felt like I was angry, why? Why was I angry? And hopefully my anger will propel you into not wanting to create more angry, you know what I mean? Like, that's kind of like the goal. I want you to feel things.

Maggie, RNC-OB  34:46  
Yeah, well, it is. I mean, obviously, you do you have a knack for, for crafting your story and sharing it with with such power and vulnerability. And I mean, it's really it's a gift that you offer to all of us. Can you tell us a little bit about what are you offering at this point for folks who want to dive in more and learn with you.

Unknown Speaker  35:02  
Yes. So I recently, you know, I took a step back from doing workshops, and I'm more focused on doing kind of like trainings and things, just finished and announced my transgender equitable care practices training, it's different in the sense that it is a hybrid training, where you'll have access to basically self led trainings by me, it is still by me, and where you know, where you can take your time and go through things. And there'll be journal prompts, and thinking moments, and, you know, terms and all of that good stuff that you'll get. And then a week later, what we do is we have an hour and a half discussion. So that's a time where we get to go over all of the things you learned all of the you know, share some of our journal prompts, and have discussions behind it, and have a q&a. And the goal basically, is for anyone who noticed I said equitable care practices and not inclusive, and we talked about why in the training, but it's for anyone who would like to, is like, I really want to create an equitable and inclusive space for trans people, but I have no idea where to start, or if I'm doing the right things, because a lot of times we overthink that because, you know, I don't know what to say or what to do, which makes sense. But this is just trying to provide like a broader understanding and get you thinking, and unlearning ways to take steps into that we're talking paperwork, we're talking pronouns, we're talking files, even down to, you know, the, the things we put on, we've tack on our walls, when people walk in, you know, what are we representing? And how can we be more equitable and inclusive for trans people, and we do, every training I do moving forward, we'll talk about anti Blackness and racism. So if that's not something that you want to delve into, then this probably was not the training for you, and that's fine. And then also, I am doing a broader so that particular piece is a space from a much bigger training that I'm putting together, that's called change begins with you. And it's going to it is actually a six, maybe seven week hybrid training as well, that is going to go even deeper into it starts from you know, trans 101 all the way down to anti Blackness microaggressions. How can I be an ally, it also it's not just for trans people, as well, it's, it's for the queer community. So we talk about, you know, how to interact with, you know, lesbian and gay people and polyamorous people and pansexual people and all the good identities under the LGBTQIA umbrella, and how to kind of become an accomplice with our community, and provide, it's not just care, it's not solely for medical spaces, or reproductive spaces, but touches on everything, if you're just an organization as

Maggie, RNC-OB  37:59  
well, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited for everything you are building those sound incredible offerings. And I mean, absolutely, like, our professional and personal lives overlap, you know, right. And so those pieces that we are bringing, this is not just about how to care for folks in your role clinical or non clinical, you know, in care is how you are, you know, how you were acting in all facets of your being. So those sounds amazing. And we would love to offer a giveaway for the trans equitable care workshop that you're doing the week that this podcast airs as well, because I so appreciate all the work you're doing and your advocacy and education. I have taken classes with you before. And it's for anyone out there who's on the fence, just as you're hearing now, Kayden is an incredible educator, and he really created such just warm spaces to dive into all of this and delve into it. So

Unknown Speaker  38:45  
thank you. And also the other thing I forgot to mention is, for that course that she said giveaway it triggered that I am offering scholarships for the course just to be completely transparent. Anyone can inquire about the scholarship, black, queer and trans people will receive priority for obvious reasons. But that does not mean that a scholarship is not available for you if you are not Black, trans or queer,

Maggie, RNC-OB  39:11  
amazing. Thank you so much for everything you offer. And then as our final question, we're asking everyone this season to tell us a little bit more what is your vision what could community birth care, community care during pregnancy and postpartum? Like,

Kayden, Advocate  39:22  
my vision is for it to be equitable my vision is for there to be a requirement that in order to provide care for in any reproductive space that you are willing and open to and able to provide care for anyone regardless of gender, gender identity, sexual preference, familial structure, race, ethnicity, religion, I hold firm to the fact that nobody should be in medical care at all, whether it be reproductive or not. That is not open to properly and in an equitable and moral manner care for these individuals in that space. It's 2022, we're about to be in 2023. There's no reason why there should be all of these medical disparities surrounding people from marginalized group not receiving the care that they're supposed to be. So my goal, it's not just for trans people. It's not just for queer people, what I see my vision, is everybody just receiving the care that they deserve. And that's equitable across the board above where we're at now

Maggie, RNC-OB  40:37  
care. Yes, yes. That's an agreement to all of that. It is a beautiful vision, and I'm here to see it realized as well. Well, thank you so much Caden for taking the time to share about your journey and share your wisdom with us. We really appreciate it. Thank you. 

Well I'm just so appreciative of Kayden taking the time to share with us so much about his experiences, and hopefully inspire all of us to examine our own thoughts, beliefs, practices, how we are showing up to create inclusive and equitable spaces for everyone, no matter their identity, and particularly how we can better support our black trans community members. We would love to dive into this conversation with you more deeply. Please find us on your work partners across social media. And we would love to highlight particular learning moments or favorite parts that can be shared and put it up on your stories on Instagram. So we can connect there. Till next time